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Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
#21
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
Quote:DNA damage

Exposure to high doses of radiation cause DNA damage, later creating serious and even lethal chromosomal aberrations if left unrepaired. Ionizing radiation can produce reactive oxygen species, and does directly damage cells by causing localized ionization events. The former is very damaging to DNA, while the latter events create clusters of DNA damage.[36][37] This damage includes loss of nucleobases and breakage of the sugar-phosphate backbone that binds to the nucleobases. The DNA organization at the level of histones, nucleosomes, and chromatin also affects its susceptibility to radiation damage.[38] Clustered damage, defined as at least two lesions within a helical turn, is especially harmful.[37] While DNA damage happens frequently and naturally in the cell from endogenous sources, clustered damage is a unique effect of radiation exposure.[39] Clustered damage takes longer to repair than isolated breakages, and is less likely to be repaired at all.[40] Larger radiation doses are more prone to cause tighter clustering of damage, and closely localized damage is increasingly less likely to be repaired.[37]

Somatic mutations cannot be passed down from parent to offspring, but these mutations can propagate in cell lines within an organism. Radiation damage can also cause chromosome and chromatid aberrations, and their effects depend on in which stage of the mitotic cycle the cell is when the irradiation occurs. If the cell is in interphase, while it is still a single strand of chromatin, the damage will be replicated during the S1 phase of cell cycle, and there will be a break on both chromosome arms; the damage then will be apparent in both daughter cells. If the irradiation occurs after replication, only one arm will bear the damage; this damage will be apparent in only one daughter cell. A damaged chromosome may cyclize, binding to another chromosome, or to itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

Radiation poisoning results from damage to the DNA. A resistance to such damage would require a major overhaul to DNA replication which itself would probably be harmful, so it seems unlikely.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
#22
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
(May 7, 2021 at 12:19 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My next issue is Mars. In my setting, Mars was terraformed, but the terraforming was incomplete. Also, Martian citizens (who were human at the time of colonization) used genetic manipulation to make them tolerant to a near-vacuum environment. They gave themselves antennae and sonar so that they could "see"... because they must keep their eyes shut when in vacuum conditions.

After some time, they experienced natural evolution that allowed them to travel from dome to dome on Mars, and survive for an hour or so on the surface of Mars. They also have a natural resistance to radiation. They developed a tribal society with much war, death, and natural selection... that's my reasoning for how they evolved so well to adapt to Mars.

My question is: is any of this even remotely possible? Is it possible for a human to evolve (with help of genetic modification) to survive in vacuum conditions? Because that is my plan for the Martians.

I don't think near-vacuum would work well.  Water can't hold adsorbed gasses (or not boil away) without some pressure.  I can't imagine humans having an exoskeleton that could keep some pressure in their bodies.

I haven't looked it up since, but I read somewhere that terraforming to even 1/10 Earth pressure might be enough for us to not need pressure suits (though it wouldn't be enough for us to breathe).
#23
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
(May 7, 2021 at 12:33 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:
(May 7, 2021 at 12:19 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: My next issue is Mars. In my setting, Mars was terraformed, but the terraforming was incomplete. Also, Martian citizens (who were human at the time of colonization) used genetic manipulation to make them tolerant to a near-vacuum environment. They gave themselves antennae and sonar so that they could "see"... because they must keep their eyes shut when in vacuum conditions.

After some time, they experienced natural evolution that allowed them to travel from dome to dome on Mars, and survive for an hour or so on the surface of Mars. They also have a natural resistance to radiation. They developed a tribal society with much war, death, and natural selection... that's my reasoning for how they evolved so well to adapt to Mars.

My question is: is any of this even remotely possible? Is it possible for a human to evolve (with help of genetic modification) to survive in vacuum conditions? Because that is my plan for the Martians.

I don't think near-vacuum would work well.  Water can't hold adsorbed gasses (or not boil away) without some pressure.  I can't imagine humans having an exoskeleton that could keep some pressure in their bodies.

I haven't looked it up since, but I read somewhere that terraforming to even 1/10 Earth pressure might be enough for us to not need pressure suits (though it wouldn't be enough for us to breathe).

I believe physiologists have concluded the strength and elasticity of human soft tissue such as muscle and skin tissue would create sufficient pressure to keep bodily fluids from boiling in a vacuum.  But it is not feasible to oxygenate blood through gas exchange at extremely low pressures.
#24
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
That's a real bummer. I also wanted to make the Mercurials resistant to radiation too, but it seems such a thing might not be scientifically viable. Maybe there is some kind of animal that can possibly resist radiation. If so, I may try to use that as a template.

And (duh) I didn't realize sonar wouldn't work in a vacuum. What was I thinking? I gotta find a reason Martians have antennae though... because (you know) they're Martians.

I'm willing to give up on them surviving vacuum conditions. I can have the partial terraforming of Mars be "more complete" I guess.
#25
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
maybe you can genetically engineer an semi-intelligent tardigrade? but that will take an awful lot of genetic engineering.  it might almost be like creating an entirely new kind of organism that just happen to have a few tardigrade genes in it.


big antenna like ears may still be valuable on mars because sound does travel in thin Martian air,  just not as well as on earth.   It’s just that if your life style didn’t include echolocation on earth, it sure won’t include echolocation on mars where echolocation would work even less well.    

but if you imagine a life style that required sensitivity to sound, then well, you may have to evolve giant ears to overcome the thin air.
#26
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
(May 3, 2021 at 6:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field (in theory) be harvested for energy?

Context: I'm doing some science fiction world building where the Jovians (who live on the moons of Jupiter) have built megastructures where they harness the energy from Jupiter's magnetic field. But I'd like to know how plausible this is. I'm trying to keep things well-grounded in science... no FTL travel, maybe no nuclear fusion, just stuff we know will work today. Huge planet-spanning structures ARE on the table however.

It's a pet project I've been tinkering with for years. A space opera that occurs in our own solar system involving several alien races: Mercurials, Venetians, Humans, Martians, Jovians, Kypers, and Oorts (who are all humans evolved, hundreds of thousands of years into the future).

Anyway, I know there are science geeks here who could give me a good analysis of the problem. The reason I care is that I want the solar system to have gone through several  cataclysms (maybe due to enormous solar flares that impacted the advancement of the inner planet civilizations negatively). But -for plot reasons- I need the Jovians to be largely unaffected by the solar flare activity. I'm thinking that Jupiter's magnetosphere might protect them. Is that plausible? I guess that's another thing I'm wondering about.

Anything is possible in fiction. Bible, Koran, Torah, Talmud, Vedas. 

I think it is hard in si-fi to not have some sort of innaccuracies. I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has picked on a few movies. 

Movies, TV shows, books,  of any genre greately rely on suspension of disbelief. 

I think it is more about your story telling skills than accuracy. Stephen King didn't make his career by accuracy. I've never seen an old car go on a killing spree.
#27
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
(May 7, 2021 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(May 3, 2021 at 6:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field (in theory) be harvested for energy?

Context: I'm doing some science fiction world building where the Jovians (who live on the moons of Jupiter) have built megastructures where they harness the energy from Jupiter's magnetic field. But I'd like to know how plausible this is. I'm trying to keep things well-grounded in science... no FTL travel, maybe no nuclear fusion, just stuff we know will work today. Huge planet-spanning structures ARE on the table however.

It's a pet project I've been tinkering with for years. A space opera that occurs in our own solar system involving several alien races: Mercurials, Venetians, Humans, Martians, Jovians, Kypers, and Oorts (who are all humans evolved, hundreds of thousands of years into the future).

Anyway, I know there are science geeks here who could give me a good analysis of the problem. The reason I care is that I want the solar system to have gone through several  cataclysms (maybe due to enormous solar flares that impacted the advancement of the inner planet civilizations negatively). But -for plot reasons- I need the Jovians to be largely unaffected by the solar flare activity. I'm thinking that Jupiter's magnetosphere might protect them. Is that plausible? I guess that's another thing I'm wondering about.

Anything is possible in fiction. Bible, Koran, Torah, Talmud, Vedas. 

I think it is hard in si-fi to not have some sort of innaccuracies. I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has picked on a few movies. 

Movies, TV shows, books,  of any genre greately rely on suspension of disbelief. 

I think it is more about your story telling skills than accuracy. Stephen King didn't make his career by accuracy. I've never seen an old car go on a killing spree.

It couldn’t be any other way with you, Brian.   😝
#28
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
(May 7, 2021 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(May 3, 2021 at 6:37 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field (in theory) be harvested for energy?

Context: I'm doing some science fiction world building where the Jovians (who live on the moons of Jupiter) have built megastructures where they harness the energy from Jupiter's magnetic field. But I'd like to know how plausible this is. I'm trying to keep things well-grounded in science... no FTL travel, maybe no nuclear fusion, just stuff we know will work today. Huge planet-spanning structures ARE on the table however.

It's a pet project I've been tinkering with for years. A space opera that occurs in our own solar system involving several alien races: Mercurials, Venetians, Humans, Martians, Jovians, Kypers, and Oorts (who are all humans evolved, hundreds of thousands of years into the future).

Anyway, I know there are science geeks here who could give me a good analysis of the problem. The reason I care is that I want the solar system to have gone through several  cataclysms (maybe due to enormous solar flares that impacted the advancement of the inner planet civilizations negatively). But -for plot reasons- I need the Jovians to be largely unaffected by the solar flare activity. I'm thinking that Jupiter's magnetosphere might protect them. Is that plausible? I guess that's another thing I'm wondering about.

Anything is possible in fiction. Bible, Koran, Torah, Talmud, Vedas. 

I think it is hard in si-fi to not have some sort of innaccuracies. I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has picked on a few movies. 

Movies, TV shows, books,  of any genre greately rely on suspension of disbelief. 

I think it is more about your story telling skills than accuracy. Stephen King didn't make his career by accuracy. I've never seen an old car go on a killing spree.

It's very true that I could write a compelling story set in a universe with impossible science. But I'm trying to make this work Hard science fiction. I'm working within that structure. Think about when you are writing a poem. Let's say you want to write a sonnet or use iambic pentameter. While these structures limit you in certain ways, they also give you a structure to work with. And that (counterintuitively) gives you creative avenues that "anything goes" does not.

I WILL and I MUST break with hard science-- or at least bruise it a bit-- to create my "Star Trek, but in our own solar system" world that I want to make. But I'm trying to do that as little as possible. That structure is helping me develop what the Martians, Jovians, and Mercurials ultimately are.

The themes of the story involve climate change, a critique of capitalism/colonialism, the absurdity of religion, and the importance of unity among different peoples. The story has a sad ending. The inhabitants of the solar system realize that they are soon to be consumed by Von Neumann probes... probes that were created by Centurions (human ancestors that traveled to a nearby star to create AI that they could worship).

Turns out the probes have lain waste to multiple civilizations across the galaxy and there is no way to stop them. And, worst of all, they are returning to our solar system to dismantle every planet in it.

THAT'S the story. But as far as worldbuilding, I want it to be as consistent as possible with known physics and biology. ("Hard science fiction.") That's the structure I've decided on, just like, at the outset of composing a poem, you may choose iambic pentameter. I mean, sure, you could write in free verse... but not this time...
#29
RE: Science Nerds: Could Jupiter's Magnetic Field be harvested for energy?
Moderator Notice
Thread closed due to necroposting by someone who should have known better.
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson



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