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Current time: July 26, 2021, 12:52 am

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Adulterous woman
#11
RE: Adulterous woman
I haven't noticed that to be the case with any christian. Are you speaking from experience? Have you prayed so hard and so long that you do less or no wrong and are now clothed in the righteousness of christ? I fear we're drifting between bad advice and empty promises. One hopes that christianity has more to offer.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#12
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 13, 2021 at 3:19 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote: Notice the word says those who were about to literally execute the woman became "convicted by their conscience" and left one by one.

But that's the thing: the law is the law, it doesn't matter what their conscience says. That's why I compared it with a convict on the electric chair about to be executed, but they don't do it because of their conscience or anything else that is outside the law system.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#13
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 12, 2021 at 12:50 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's obviously important to tell our stories this way, while I don't want to say that all cultures and stories are exactly the same, it actually is hard to find a culture with no trickster hero or trickster god story.   They probably exist to explain (or create, or reinforce) the value of being clever.

To use one of the more direct parallels between the characters, a small snippet from wiki will be instructive.

Quote:He was almost put into herem (excommunication) for the above incident in which he showed "dishonor" to God, as if he had imposed himself upon God. However, Shimon ben Shetach, the brother of Queen Shlomtzion, excused him, saying that Honi had a special relationship with God.
Sound familiar?

So Jesus is Brer Fox? Nice to know 😃

(June 13, 2021 at 3:52 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote:
(June 13, 2021 at 3:36 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I've always struggled to see the utility of that advice to humans in human societies.  We're going to do it anyway, because it would be imprudent to the point of absurdity to take this gods advice in this matter....and that does seem like something a god should already know.

I hear you, because of a natural human inclination to judge / sin since the fall of man. 

However, I tell you that with continuous prayer and by the grace of God, in His strength, by the Holy Spirit - one does so/wrong less and less, growing from grace to grace in practice - ultimately relying on being clothed in the righteousness of the Lord Jesus, the Christ - the only Holy One by and through whom we can ever be reconciled back to God. (Acts 4:12)

"For with God nothing will be impossible." - Luke 1:37

You know your "god made us totally evil, and only god can make us do good" bovine excrement doesn't fly here and you're not good enough of an artist to make it fly. So why do you keep peddling it?
[Image: percent_1]
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#14
RE: Adulterous woman
Note that this story is not found in the earliest Greek Gospel manuscripts, it seems to have been added maybe in the 400s.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#15
RE: Adulterous woman
Well, there is only one correct version of the good book, and that version backs me up 100% of the time.

Proof positive god loves me more!
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#16
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 14, 2021 at 7:27 am)Nomad Wrote:
(June 12, 2021 at 12:50 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's obviously important to tell our stories this way, while I don't want to say that all cultures and stories are exactly the same, it actually is hard to find a culture with no trickster hero or trickster god story.   They probably exist to explain (or create, or reinforce) the value of being clever.

To use one of the more direct parallels between the characters, a small snippet from wiki will be instructive.

Sound familiar?

So Jesus is Brer Fox?  Nice to know 😃

Sort of the other way around..but...yes......
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#17
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 12, 2021 at 2:12 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Why is it always the woman that gets stoned and never the man?

-because only a woman can be a whore subject to the test of the bitter waters or any other thing, so sayeth magic book.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#18
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 13, 2021 at 6:27 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I haven't noticed that to be the case with any christian.  Are you speaking from experience?  Have you prayed so hard and so long that you do less or no wrong and are now clothed in the righteousness of christ?  I fear we're drifting between bad advice and empty promises.  One hopes that christianity has more to offer.

That would be logical because not all that claim to belong to Christ are His (Matthew 7:22-24), though I pass no judgment.  I am truly speaking from personal experience. The Apostle Paul (formerly Saul of Tarsus who studied under Gamaliel and persecuted Christians) said "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief."  

I can identify because I was going in the wrong direction without a care until one day (like Saul turned Paul - Acts Chapter 9), God mercifully began my 180 degree turn.  I would be dishonest if I said it's been a breeze, but that's the point... with continuous prayer (petitioning God) and reading the Bible (hearing the word of God) - God has shown Himself gracious and faithful (much like a Father / Mother helping his/her child)... and one knows when one is helped.

Personally? No interest in peddling anything, but like a referee I just call it like it is and move on. 

(June 14, 2021 at 6:15 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(June 13, 2021 at 3:19 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote: Notice the word says those who were about to literally execute the woman became "convicted by their conscience" and left one by one.

But that's the thing: the law is the law, it doesn't matter what their conscience says. That's why I compared it with a convict on the electric chair about to be executed, but they don't do it because of their conscience or anything else that is outside the law system.

Theoretically true, but in this case the Lord Jesus came as a fulfillment of the law - "in the volume of the book it is written of Me" - He declares. Essentially, He (having the authority to do so) set the record straight, despite their coded laws previously given.  Illustratively, even our own laws change - via a number of avenues, including legislative action and case law via judges. 

Rather than judgment - mercy.  Rather than an "eye for an eye" - "turn the other cheek". Rather than the symbol of animal sacrifices - the actual substitutionary, personal sacrifice of the Christ. 

One pertinent example is when the Pharisees attempted to indict His disciples for plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath saying, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” to which Jesus responded in part "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” (Mark 2:23-28)

There were many other instances when they tried to use the law to trap and thus persecute the Christ - which they eventually believe they did, but He says regarding His resulting crucifixion - "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (John 10:18)
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#19
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 13, 2021 at 3:19 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote: Clearly the scribes and Pharisees of that day were envious of the Lord Jesus because of His teachings and because the "world has gone after Him" (John 12:19).

Whatever. I've read the Gospels plenty, and you know what I think?

The vast majority of Christians remind me more of the scribes and Pharisees than they do Jesus. It's like the entire religion is founded on acting just like the scribes and Pharisees, except you pepper in the phrase "Lord Jesus" here and there.
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#20
RE: Adulterous woman
(June 12, 2021 at 12:15 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: John 8:1-11 tells us how Jews wanted to stone an adulterous woman but Jesus told them not to, and therefore they didn't.

But why would Jews ask Jesus whether they should obey the Torah or not?! And then listen to him?
I can see why someone would ask this question if you ignore everything Jesus did up to this point. remember the people following his have seen things most of you refuse to consider. then the icing on the cake was Jesus' teaching was the one without sin cast the first stone... while he was writing out their most private sins on the ground. (implying if they threw the first stone, they too will be stonned.)
Quote:Compliance with Mosaic Law was not a joke. It was rigorously enforced; after all, that was what public stoning was for.
which is why they were not in a position to stone this woman. the law did not allow sinners or people who qualify to be stoned to stone others. rather those who were without sin could only measure out the punishment of god. which is why jesus asked the woman where are your accusers? (again they had all left) now because there was no one left to prosecute her for this sin, jesus said i do not condemn you either (being the only one who could then call for her stoning) go and sin no more...

Quote:It's like if today law enforcement officers strap a convict to the electric chair in Kentucky to execute him, but someone, who has nothing to do with the judiciary system, says "Don't do it" and they don't do it.
actually it's nothing like that.
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