evolutionary psychology

[arewethereyet]

Not discounting the human advantage of language but there is non-language stored/transmitted information laso

And I'm not sure what this has to do with EP other than 'Yea Language'.

My main point is simply that the difference between the human mind and the animal mind is language, and only language
A quick example, you may have seen the video of the crow confronted with a piece of food at the bottom of a class tube too deep for him to reach, there are also a few objects laying around including a toothpick type stick. Once the crow realizes that he cannot reach the morsel on his own, he cocks his head and looks around, he spots the toothpick, picks it up with his mouth reaches in the tube, spears the food, lifts it our and eats. (applause all around)
A very resourceful animal, but the difference between the crow and a human is this, if you removed the crow after he saw the situation, but before he had a chance to act, he would not have any memory of the problem, he can only operate  on the immediate sensory input, the  way humans recall memory is by using internal language, that is how we (humans) do it. no animal has directed thought simply because they don't have language
I can solve that problem, (the treat in the tube) if it described to me, using language, and I can solve it sitting at my desk at home, because using internal language, what we call thought, I can recall the images, food, glass tube and toothpick. and manipulate them in my mind, using internal language, because those images are stored in my mind. and stored associated with names. In short, no animal can solve a problem without immediate sensory input,. he cannot recall images because it has no access to his memory, his memory is only triggered by immediate sensory input. It is language that gives us access to all that is stored in our mind.

I'm a a bit puzzled by this. Many animals have a language...it just doesn't happen to be the same as ours...yet we are able to communicate with some animals using words, signs, and body language.

No, I can't explain to a crow how to use a tool but I can teach several other animals how to respond to certain human vocalizations.

Where are we going with this topic?

[Angrboda]

My main point is simply that the difference between the human mind and the animal mind is language, and only language
A quick example, you may have seen the video of the crow confronted with a piece of food at the bottom of a class tube too deep for him to reach, there are also a few objects laying around including a toothpick type stick. Once the crow realizes that he cannot reach the morsel on his own, he cocks his head and looks around, he spots the toothpick, picks it up with his mouth reaches in the tube, spears the food, lifts it our and eats. (applause all around)
A very resourceful animal, but the difference between the crow and a human is this, if you removed the crow after he saw the situation, but before he had a chance to act, he would not have any memory of the problem, he can only operate  on the immediate sensory input, the  way humans recall memory is by using internal language, that is how we (humans) do it. no animal has directed thought simply because they don't have language
I can solve that problem, (the treat in the tube) if it described to me, using language, and I can solve it sitting at my desk at home, because using internal language, what we call thought, I can recall the images, food, glass tube and toothpick. and manipulate them in my mind, using internal language, because those images are stored in my mind. and stored associated with names. In short, no animal can solve a problem without immediate sensory input,. he cannot recall images because it has no access to his memory, his memory is only triggered by immediate sensory input. It is language that gives us access to all that is stored in our mind.

I'm a a bit puzzled by this.  Many animals have a language...it just doesn't happen to be the same as ours...yet we are able to communicate with some animals using words, signs, and body language.

No, I can't explain to a crow how to use a tool but I can teach several other animals how to respond to certain human vocalizations.

Where are we going with this topic?

[vulcanlogician]

My main point is simply that the difference between the human mind and the animal mind is language, and only language

So you're using the word "language" in a generalized sense. One that also includes the "inner dialogue" of thought processes used in arriving at solutions etc. It's interesting to consider.

[The Grand Nudger]

Bats speak bat, you speak human. Language in and of itself doesn't separate us from any other communicating animal. There's no separation. We are animals.

A human mind is an animal mind, that's the base contention of evolutionary psychology.

Language didn't make us what we are, we were that before we think we had any recognizable language. We developed language, as evolutionary psychologists have it, as a side effect of rigorous chewing borne out of necessity. We still go through that phase in development, every single one of us, right at the start of our life.

[evolcon]

Bats speak bat, you speak human.  Language in and of itself  doesn't separate us from any other communicating animal.  There's no separation.  We are animals.  

A human mind is an animal mind, that's the base contention of evolutionary psychology.

Language didn't make us what we are, we were that before we think we had any recognizable language.  We developed language, as evolutionary psychologists have it, as a side effect of rigorous chewing borne out of necessity.  We still go through that phase in development, every single one of us, right at the start of our life.

---

It appears that we are very far apart in our thinking about the mind. I really don't have the energy to engage in a drawn out discussion, so I'm done posting. If you're at all interested, my ideas are based mostly on those of Pinker, E O Wilson, Barkow, Cosmides, John Tooby and a few others in that school of thought.

[arewethereyet]

Bats speak bat, you speak human.  Language in and of itself  doesn't separate us from any other communicating animal.  There's no separation.  We are animals.  

A human mind is an animal mind, that's the base contention of evolutionary psychology.

Language didn't make us what we are, we were that before we think we had any recognizable language.  We developed language, as evolutionary psychologists have it, as a side effect of rigorous chewing borne out of necessity.  We still go through that phase in development, every single one of us, right at the start of our life.

---

It appears that we are very far apart in our thinking about the mind. I really don't have the energy to engage in a drawn out discussion, so I'm done posting.  If you're at all interested, my ideas are based mostly on those of Pinker, E O Wilson, Barkow, Cosmides, John Tooby and a few others in that school of thought.

So, you don't have the energy to engage with people who don't agree with you? Does that about cover it?

[evolcon]

---

It appears that we are very far apart in our thinking about the mind. I really don't have the energy to engage in a drawn out discussion, so I'm done posting.  If you're at all interested, my ideas are based mostly on those of Pinker, E O Wilson, Barkow, Cosmides, John Tooby and a few others in that school of thought.

So, you don't have the energy to engage with people who don't agree with you?  Does that about cover it?

No, I mean that I literally don't have the energy, I'm 78 and I don't touch type

[arewethereyet]

So, you don't have the energy to engage with people who don't agree with you?  Does that about cover it?

No, I mean that I literally don't have the energy, I'm 78 and I don't touch type

I get it...I'm not that far behind you in age though and have some health issues but I can type...most of the time.

[Angrboda]

See, this is why crows never mastered space travel. They're shitty typists.

[vulcanlogician]

Bats speak bat, you speak human.  Language in and of itself  doesn't separate us from any other communicating animal.  There's no separation.  We are animals.  

A human mind is an animal mind, that's the base contention of evolutionary psychology.

Language didn't make us what we are, we were that before we think we had any recognizable language.  We developed language, as evolutionary psychologists have it, as a side effect of rigorous chewing borne out of necessity.  We still go through that phase in development, every single one of us, right at the start of our life.

---

It appears that we are very far apart in our thinking about the mind. I really don't have the energy to engage in a drawn out discussion, so I'm done posting.  If you're at all interested, my ideas are based mostly on those of Pinker, E O Wilson, Barkow, Cosmides, John Tooby and a few others in that school of thought.

Aw, c'mon. Supporting and defending one's own ideas can be energizing too, no?

I think evolutionary psychology is a great lens through which to view the psyche and come away with an adequate understanding. But I also kind of see it as a modality; other ways of approaching the mind can produce insights that the evolutionary approach can't or usually doesn't. Do you agree with that?