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evolutionary psychology
#41
RE: evolutionary psychology
(August 5, 2021 at 2:43 pm)evolcon Wrote: Human complex language is very different, it's not just the spoken word. language allows humans access to their stored memory, in other animals memory is only accessed by current sensory impute, human can in essence select their thoughts.

That simply isn't right. It varies by the individual, minds are unsurprisingly diverse, but much of your access to memory and cognition is conceptual with no linguistic component whatsoever.
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#42
RE: evolutionary psychology
I didn't say only by language, I said language allows another path, another way thought can be accessed, so now it's not just sight, sound or odor, there is, in humans another pathway, language. language allow thoughts to be controlled. It's not just words, It's grammar. words are linked, we have a large lexicon which we can access and link rapidly, that's conversation.

If there is another way to access thought I don't know what that would be
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#43
RE: evolutionary psychology
Evol, you do tend to use absolutes when you speak (only, no, all, none,....). That's where I (and maybe others) take issue.

Example: You stated that "the difference between the human mind and the animal mind is language, and only language" (post 16). We know that this is not correct.

And you infer in post #37 that without language there is no human thought. Then what is going on if a deaf child's brain prior to sign language acquisition?

Another way to access thought is pictorially.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_thinking
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#44
RE: evolutionary psychology
Turns out that people flintknapping have brains that look like a person learning to play music by ear. Posted a bit about it in the archaeology thread awhile back.

They're not doing words or diagrams or any of that -and at a point, we had tools but no words or diagrams. They were humming a hand axe into existence - and our brains still work that way doing the same work today - or, at least, we imagine there must be some shared business here - as they noticed this in unrelated test subjects with varying levels of skill between completely new and expert. Language may be a byproduct of something far more useful to us. Not the show itself, not even an attraction at the show. Just the billboards.

If you want to dive down the rabbit hole, keep that in mind - and then consider that we find shared technologies in multiple instances of independent construction and reconstruction all over the world and time. People we know for fact never communicated with each other in any way ended up making the same types of points and choppers. Invented things like spear throwers and bows. Construction techniques were roughly separated by latitudinal bands even though these bands are broken in many instances by vast bodies of water.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#45
RE: evolutionary psychology
At work.

To Grand Nudger.

Might ancient 'Man' have partly inherited some tool use from the preceeding hominid?

(I know I'm making a hash of my question tapping away on my phone)

Or, another way how far back into thd hominid ancestry might tool use go?

Cheers.
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#46
RE: evolutionary psychology
Habilus was named for toolmaking, 2.4 to 1.4 million years ago. As far as inheriting tools, sure, we inherited tools a variety of ways - but, interestingly,we didn't have too. We'd come up with the same tools on our own all over the world over and over again.

Some of the things we find in midden heaps are very literally the kind of stuff that a hominid like us makes. Take a few hs children out of a cradle from earth and transport them to an earthlike planet with no history and no inheritance and no one to talk to, and you're going to see an otzwali hand axe appear on another planet. It's just a matter of time. They'll come up with bows, spear launchers, fire drills, all of it remarkably indistinguishable from tools on earth and another time.

Or, at least, if they... didn't ....that would be the odd exception. We have the same trouble here on earth explaining dead ended ancient tool cultures.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#47
RE: evolutionary psychology
(August 8, 2021 at 9:11 pm)evolcon Wrote: I didn't say only by language, I said language allows another path, another way thought can be accessed, so now it's not just sight, sound or odor, there is, in humans another pathway, language. language allow thoughts to be controlled. It's not just words, It's grammar. words are linked, we have a large lexicon which we can access and link rapidly, that's conversation.

If there is another way to access thought I don't know what that would be

Conceptual. Most people only think in terms of language when going over some inner monologue because it's otherwise ridiculously inefficient. If you convert ideas to language and then back to ideas again any time you simply want to link two ideas then you're using your language centres to no good purpose. Language is brilliant for communicating with others of your society and preserving knowledge, but it's rubbish for internal access.
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#48
RE: evolutionary psychology
The brain in non human animals constantly records, sorts and stores all sensory input, and than uses it to survive, that is what the brain evolved to do. Just like every other organ, it is a survival tool. Self awareness and conscience in non humans is debatable. I don't think that it exists.
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#49
RE: evolutionary psychology
(August 24, 2021 at 7:21 pm)evolcon Wrote: The brain in non human animals constantly records, sorts and stores all sensory input, and than uses it to survive, that is what the brain evolved to do. Just like every other organ, it is a survival tool. Self awareness and conscience in non humans is debatable. I don't think that it exists.

I don't agree with your assertion.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#50
RE: evolutionary psychology
Seeing how we use human behavior as the metrics when studying other great apes, thinking them self aware..wouldn't that suggest that human behavior was a debatable case for human self awareness?  

I suppose people sometimes ask "but couldn't they be taught to beat these tests?"..and I think.... sure, just like any human child.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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