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Current time: January 27, 2022, 3:58 pm

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Attack on voting
RE: Attack on voting
(August 9, 2021 at 4:32 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote:
(August 9, 2021 at 9:16 am)Angrboda Wrote: This reminds me of some half-serious thoughts I've had about conservatism representing the trailing edge of human evolution while liberlism represents the advancing edge.  Setting aside the appearance of mere partisan perspective, there appear to be some indicators that may support the notion.  In general, as measured by things like Kohlberg's scale of moral development, conservatives seem to cluster lower on the scale than liberals.  And from Jonathan Haidt's work we know that conservatives weight things like loyalty and purity higher than liberals do.  It's not hard to make an argument that such values are better suited to small, isolated socieities than large heterogeneous ones.  And when one looks at the "good for me but not for thee" split, one recognizes that their planning horizon and values are not supportive of more abstract principles such as Kant's silver rule or Rawls' framework for evaluating justice.  Liberals, on the other hand, seem more capable of embracing such things.

Of course, there are things worth noting here.  This may all be a matter of rampant partisan confirmation bias on my part.  It may also be that any social group, when threatened, will retreat to these strategies and so it's not diagnostic of conservatism specifically.  Still, I can't help but wonder.

(bold is mine).

I'm not sure this is true.  Conservatism means resistance to change, and valuing long-standing values.  Progressivism means embracing new ways of doing things, that presumably better reflect new values.

I wouldn't put liberalism in that conversation at all.  Liberalism means a respect for freedom, democracy, and questioning ideas (both old and new).

I support liberalism strongly - but I can see value in both conservatism and progressivism.  Who is to say whether the "tried and true" or the "new and shiny" is actually the best?  It is a matter of culture, values, imagination, and critical analysis.  I find the far left and right to be looney - but I could be wrong about some things. 

Perhaps there is a a great new idea I've been missing, and should learn about.  Or, perhaps some ideas have already failed many times in the past, and we shouldn't be messing around with another mistake.  I won't tie my horse to either stable.

It would have been clearer if I had said conservatives, rather than conservatism. Conservatism the ideological stance can be neutral, as you suggest, whereas conservatism the social movement may not be, as the people inside it may preferentially cluster around specific psychological or sociological traits. It is the psychological and social makeup of conservatives that I am questioning, not the rather disconnected generalization of the ideological stance.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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RE: Attack on voting
You can tell how much Republicans REALLY care about voter fraud, when you see their reaction to one of their own doing it. (e.g. Hershel Walker's wife)
"Tradition" is just a word people use to make themselves feel better about being an asshole.
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RE: Attack on voting
That's one way. Another way is to look at the states where Republicans are passing laws restricting things like absentee voting or early voting, all in purple states or states with a large non-white population. However, in states like Utah, where the population is white as snow, voting is quite open.

https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_in_Utah
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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RE: Attack on voting
This is true.  There is some amount of voter fraud in almost every election but on a state and national scale it doesn't amount to much because the logistics don't make it possible.

Election fraud, OTOH, can certainly make a difference in almost any election.  Trump actually claimed there was both voter fraud and election fraud in the 2020 election.  Both were nonsense.  However, we know of at least one case of Republican election fraud back in 2018 involving tampering with mail in ballots (https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-...rict-fraud).  It was determined that this has been going on for a long time.  You never heard Trump reference that case, did you?

Voter restrictions are, I believe, far more devious than either of the previous two because this is just robbing people of the ability to vote at all.  And currently only Republitards practice this abominable behavior.  In the distant past it was Democrats (Jim Crow), as OLB just loves to whine about, as if that somehow excuses the current Republican behavior.  And in both cases it was conservatives/racists who were/are guilty of this behavior, not progressives.  In case anyone doesn't get this, it is the behavior that is reprehensible.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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