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Attack on voting
#91
RE: Attack on voting
I think you're wrong there. The gop absolutely does want to lock in minority rule by disenfranchising opposition. While they still can, they figure. They don't think it's wrong to do, they think it's wrong to do -to them-.

Its a country for me, but not for thee.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#92
RE: Attack on voting
(August 9, 2021 at 8:59 am)Angrboda Wrote: It's also a question of what we want.  Texas Democrats running away is similar to the filibuster in that it is a tool which is intentionally designed to frustrate the will of the majority under certain circumstances.  While Republicans are badmouthing the Texas Democrats, they are arguing animatedly about preserving the filibuster so that, on occasion, the minority can thwart the will of the majority.  Is that a desirable feature?  Perhaps.  What Texas' legislature is doing is different in that it is making a more fundamental change in ensuring that the minority is able to overrule the majority most of the time by disenfranchising a large enough segment of the majority to make them unable to counter the minority.  Is that something that we want as a permanent feature of our democracy, a situation in which the minority is given an artificial boost at all times?  Let's consider what that would mean in terms of the filibuster.  If the filibuster were automatic such that every piece of legislation required 60 votes to open debate, there would be a lot more sessions where nothing got done because neither side could muster a strong enough majority.  Neither side wants that, and in truth, neither side wants minority rule, as ultimately that's not in the majorities interest as someday, the majority will become the minority.  On that day, if rules like these voter suppression laws are allowed to stand, we'll see laws disenfranchising conservatives, and on that day, those same conservatives will be squealing like stuck pigs.  The only reason the extreme right is advocating these voter suppression laws is to preserve their power in the face of forces which, like it or not, one way or another, are going to move conservatism away from the right-wing extremism it currently embraces.  So rather than being any kind of principled stand, these laws are just a minority capitalizing on a small window in time to promote their own interests.  And it's something they would protest vehemently if the other side were to do it.  It's something they know is wrong, wouldn't condone in someone else, and which they wouldn't consider fair in the abstract.  It's simply another blatant example of Republican hypocrisy.

I agree with everything you said, but I believe the real motivation for Texas and other Republicans is that they realize the demographics are pointing to a much smaller WASP voting base in the future.  Non-white voters currently vote Democrat more often and the Republicans voter base looks like a snow storm in Siberia.  They haven't figured out how to change the rapidly changing demographics, so instead they figured they can just install Jim Crow 2.0.  Perhaps you are right and the GOP won't reside an an extremist group for long; I hope that's the case.  But even those in the party that aren't really extremists appear happy to use the power of that group to their advantage.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#93
RE: Attack on voting
(August 9, 2021 at 9:01 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I think you're wrong there.  The gop absolutely does want to lock in minority rule by disenfranchising opposition.  While they still can, they figure.  They don't think it's wrong to do, they think it's wrong to do -to them-.

Its a country for me, but not for thee.

This reminds me of some half-serious thoughts I've had about conservatism representing the trailing edge of human evolution while liberlism represents the advancing edge. Setting aside the appearance of mere partisan perspective, there appear to be some indicators that may support the notion. In general, as measured by things like Kohlberg's scale of moral development, conservatives seem to cluster lower on the scale than liberals. And from Jonathan Haidt's work we know that conservatives weight things like loyalty and purity higher than liberals do. It's not hard to make an argument that such values are better suited to small, isolated socieities than large heterogeneous ones. And when one looks at the "good for me but not for thee" split, one recognizes that their planning horizon and values are not supportive of more abstract principles such as Kant's silver rule or Rawls' framework for evaluating justice. Liberals, on the other hand, seem more capable of embracing such things.

Of course, there are things worth noting here. This may all be a matter of rampant partisan confirmation bias on my part. It may also be that any social group, when threatened, will retreat to these strategies and so it's not diagnostic of conservatism specifically. Still, I can't help but wonder.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#94
RE: Attack on voting
There was a period of time when racist politicians openly criticized policies as cowtowing to the "N" word. That was over a generation ago and it was mostly Democrats but some Republicans as well. in the 80's there was enough public scorn to force those politicians to change their language, dropping the "n" word and replacing it with more palatable words that sounded like boring policy, but there were still open racists in high political office. Today they are still there but their language is even more obtuse and they are overwhelmingly Republican. What comes out of their mouth is often impossibly irrational, but through their policies it is clear where their loyalties lie; they are the same people as George Wallace and Strom Thurmond.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#95
RE: Attack on voting
I really don't understand people who claim that both parties are the same. There are literally scores of reasons why this is not true and I think the real problem here is that people who like to rant about this are 1) largely ignorant of the minutiae of government policies and 2) brain washed to believe that both parties are nothing but a giant conspiracy to enslave people or some other ridiculous notion. What is abundantly true is that the federal government is a megalithic bureaucracy and that it's insanely expensive and probably insanely inefficient. We've all heard too many stories about (insert favorite agency) that wasted 100's of millions of dollars while the service it was supposed to provide was horrible. Yeah, I get it, that sucks, but it isn't about one or the other party; it's about the size and scope of the government. When something gets that big it gets really difficult to manage, no matter who is running it.

So, just privatize, it the usual GOP retort. In some cases that's a good solution, but its rarely a panacea. For just about every privatized segment that was successful, there's one that was a disaster. Some of these eventually recover, but lets just stop with the outrageous praise for privatization; it's ok at best, a horrible disaster at worst, and somebody always gets rich because of it. The specific issues we have to deal with are unique to our times, but in every past large kingdom or empire, you can find examples of the same type of problems we experience, meaning governing a massive empire is never easy and often is a root cause of the collapse of said empire.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#96
RE: Attack on voting
(August 9, 2021 at 9:16 am)Angrboda Wrote: This reminds me of some half-serious thoughts I've had about conservatism representing the trailing edge of human evolution while liberlism represents the advancing edge.  Setting aside the appearance of mere partisan perspective, there appear to be some indicators that may support the notion.  In general, as measured by things like Kohlberg's scale of moral development, conservatives seem to cluster lower on the scale than liberals.  And from Jonathan Haidt's work we know that conservatives weight things like loyalty and purity higher than liberals do.  It's not hard to make an argument that such values are better suited to small, isolated socieities than large heterogeneous ones.  And when one looks at the "good for me but not for thee" split, one recognizes that their planning horizon and values are not supportive of more abstract principles such as Kant's silver rule or Rawls' framework for evaluating justice.  Liberals, on the other hand, seem more capable of embracing such things.

Of course, there are things worth noting here.  This may all be a matter of rampant partisan confirmation bias on my part.  It may also be that any social group, when threatened, will retreat to these strategies and so it's not diagnostic of conservatism specifically.  Still, I can't help but wonder.

(bold is mine).

I'm not sure this is true.  Conservatism means resistance to change, and valuing long-standing values.  Progressivism means embracing new ways of doing things, that presumably better reflect new values.

I wouldn't put liberalism in that conversation at all.  Liberalism means a respect for freedom, democracy, and questioning ideas (both old and new).

I support liberalism strongly - but I can see value in both conservatism and progressivism.  Who is to say whether the "tried and true" or the "new and shiny" is actually the best?  It is a matter of culture, values, imagination, and critical analysis.  I find the far left and right to be looney - but I could be wrong about some things. 

Perhaps there is a a great new idea I've been missing, and should learn about.  Or, perhaps some ideas have already failed many times in the past, and we shouldn't be messing around with another mistake.  I won't tie my horse to either stable.
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#97
RE: Attack on voting
The difference between the far left and the far right - is when they are in charge and you run afoul of them - hanging ( R ) and lethal injection ( L ) are the solutions to their problem of you....
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#98
RE: Attack on voting
Quote:The difference between the far left and the far right - is when they are in charge and you run afoul of them - hanging ( R ) and lethal injection ( L ) are the solutions to their problem of you....
Utter bullshit  Doh
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#99
RE: Attack on voting
Heloise - is that you - "not following me around" again?


.....

You really need a hobby.....

Try stamp collecting....


Then if nothing else you'll have postage to send a letter to somebody who gives a fuck.....
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RE: Attack on voting
Quote:Heloise - is that you - "not following me around" again?
Yup because I'm not. But if you happen to have any actual evidence of this little pet theory of yours please show it. Oh, wait you don't because it's bullshit. Hell, you even had to make up evidence to try and prop it up. What does that tell us? Hehe


Quote:You really need a hobby.....

Try stamp collecting....
Already have plenty of hobbies  refuting your bullshit isn't one of them  Hehe



Quote:Then if nothing else you'll have postage to send a letter to somebody who gives a fuck.....
I don't give a fuck if you give a fuck really. My refutations aren't for you because you are too much of a coward to actually address anything and instead you resort to childish insults because it's all your peanut-sized brain can muster.....Neanderthal  Hilarious
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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