[Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false

[Abaddon_ire]

Loss of one's freedom is indeed punishment.  Forcing a thief to pay restitution for the theft is better, in my opinion.

That's precisely the problem, isn't it? Everybody has an opinion about how best to punish a thief. Again, don't you think it's even better to listen to the wise opinion of an OMNISCIENT being?

OK let's assume that. It doesn't mean allah is not a total cunt, does it?

Let me know when an omniscient being actually shows up, Klorophyll.  (Hint:  Stories about omniscient beings don't count.)

This is not a thread about proving theism. For the purpose of this thread, assume there is an omniscient being, now would you rather follow your opinion or the commands of the purported omniscient being?

Until you made it so.

No, no, a thousand times no.  To think in terms like "must be horrible" is to succumb to childish, primitive and simplistic ideas of justice that do vastly more harm than good.

Punishing a handful of thieves according to Islamic law will drastically decrease the occurence of robbery/burglary given the harsh nature of the punishment. That's the point of Islamic law, after all.

Yup, I agree. The point of islamic so called law is barbarism.

A proper punishment is one that corrects the problem in the simplest way possible without causing other problems.  

Thank you, excellent definition. The simplest way to stop a thief from stealing: cut off the hands he steals property with. This way, he won't cause more problems to other members of society. And one man's inability to work (oh, and thieves aren't motivated to work, in general) is outweighed by the overall decrease of thievery as a result of enforcing Islamic law. It seems Islamic law fits your definition perfectly. Again, thanks!

Nope. If that were true, there would be no theft to punish anymore in your barbaric society.

  A man deprived of one or both hands becomes a burden upon society because he can no longer work.  The goal of rehabilitation and restitution has been abandoned in favour of atavistic bloodlust, the very antithesis of justice.

A man in jail is also a burden for society, the cost of incarceration is very high, too. Again, enforcing a harsh punishment will cause an overall decrease of thievery because it's dissuasive. Prison time isn't dissuasive.

Apparently, cutting hands off isn't either, since you barbarians still have thieves.

Harsh and horrible, wasnt it? But isn't a proper punishment supposed to be horrible? Considering that Damiens most probably knew about Ravaillac, but still attempted regicide, maybe Ravaillacs punisment wasnt horrible proper enough?

I said harsh and horrible, not psychopatic or sadistic. One can think of all kinds of inventive ways to punish a human being, after all. It's good to know that cutting a thief's hand is not applied in all circumstances. Someone stealing food because otherwise he will die of hunger won't get his hands cut off, according to Islamic jurisprudence. The harsh penalty of cutting hands is only for those who didn't really need to steal and could've found a legit source of income.

So cut off all the Saud dynasties hands. All of them have their hands in the cookie jar.

You are invited get yourself sent to prison. Then - and only then - will you be able to decide whether or not prison is punishment.

Boru

I have a TV screen and an internet connection, you know. I know what prisons look like from the inside. I also know for a fact that some prisons are extremely comfortable.

A criminal suffering from inhumane conditions at Bastoy Prison, Norway:

Norway? WTF has that to do with the US?

The average recidivism rate in the U.S. is a startling 43%. They don't seem to have learnt much now do they?

Sure, because the US has a cruel prison system. But what is the recidivism rate in Norway? 20%. Norway seems to have learned something, no?

Fuck off with your massive strawman.

[The Grand Nudger]

We're asked whether we'd follow orders to mutilate a fucker or side with our own opinions on not mutilating people.

Talk about easy decisions.

[R00tKiT]

You think that recidivism is high in the us because prisons aren't horrible enough, and to drive this point home you have a picture from norway, and sweden. 

The high rate of recidivism in the U.S. was a simple anecdote. A glimpse of prison conditions in norway or sweden is enough to show not everyone is getting proper punishment in prison. That said, I am NOT advocating for harsher prison conditions, I simply reject emprisonment in any form, it's not adequate punishment, even if it has some benefits or some efficiency.

Nope. If that were true, there would be no theft to punish anymore in your barbaric society.

My barbaric society doesn't apply Sharia law, very few countries do. And even those who do suffer from extreme corruption that prevents the Islamic justice system from being applied at the highest levels of government.

[WinterHold]

You misunderstood me; I'm actually "embracing the faith of Islam & taking the Quran to be my constitution", and no need to take the high moral horse by you in this discussion...

Then speak out against dismemberment punishments like hand amputations for theft -- now -- or STFU about "the high moral horse [sic]."

I wouldn't because I agree on the punishment. The judge who sentences it though must consider many variables before doing so (like the age of the criminal).

[quote pid='2083952' dateline='1641750183']
Winter, your "Oh poor me; the Evil West is killing us all" shtick is getting really old.  I, for one, am not the "you" in "that you blow your ammunitions on."  I live in a nation of peacekeepers who risked and often lost their lives trying to protect Muslims from other Muslims in Afghanistan.  My dad landed on Juno Beach in 1944 to help liberate Europe from the Nazis.  You dishonour their memories, and dishonour your beliefs even more, with your words.

[/quote]

No again you misunderstood; the west caused massacres in our land that the natives will never forget, it's not a matter of "oh poor me"; but a matter of "war reparations never payed by the west", here read the definition:

War reparations are compensation payments made after a war by one side to the other. They are intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during a war. Generally, the term refers to money or goods changing hands, but not to the  of land.

Your government should pay us for the damage they caused since WW1 and WW2 continuing to modern times, just like Japan paying the west still, they were a part of the allied forces that engineered Sykes-Picot agreement and got us Muslims into this hell.


As for the sentences in Islam; it's my religion: just don't steal from a Muslim on Muslim land.

---

Winter, your life is shit because you live in an islamic hellhole that doesn't consider you to be a full person.  Nothing to do with vikings...or canadians, with their ammo blowing religion.

I already stated the most "so called Muslim communities and governments" are not actually Muslim in terms of belief; the Vikings were just an example in the middle of a discussion that started with the "disgusting behaviour of fraud & forgery that is called "the Hadith" ".

Don't forget that the name of the topic is:

 [Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Then speak out against dismemberment punishments like hand amputations for theft -- now -- or STFU about "the high moral horse [sic]."

I wouldn't because I agree on the punishment. The judge who sentences it though must consider many variables before doing so (like the age of the criminal).

[quote pid='2083952' dateline='1641750183']
Winter, your "Oh poor me; the Evil West is killing us all" shtick is getting really old.  I, for one, am not the "you" in "that you blow your ammunitions on."  I live in a nation of peacekeepers who risked and often lost their lives trying to protect Muslims from other Muslims in Afghanistan.  My dad landed on Juno Beach in 1944 to help liberate Europe from the Nazis.  You dishonour their memories, and dishonour your beliefs even more, with your words.

No again you misunderstood; the west caused massacres in our land that the natives will never forget, it's not a matter of "oh poor me"; but a matter of "war reparations never payed by the west", here read the definition:

War reparations are compensation payments made after a war by one side to the other. They are intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during a war. Generally, the term refers to money or goods changing hands, but not to the  of land.

Your government should pay us for the damage they caused since WW1 and WW2 continuing to modern times, just like Japan paying the west still, they were a part of the allied forces that engineered Sykes-Picot agreement and got us Muslims into this hell.


As for the sentences in Islam; it's my religion: just don't steal from a Muslim on Muslim land.

---

Winter, your life is shit because you live in an islamic hellhole that doesn't consider you to be a full person.  Nothing to do with vikings...or canadians, with their ammo blowing religion.

I already stated the most "so called Muslim communities and governments" are not actually Muslim in terms of belief; the Vikings were just an example in the middle of a discussion that started with the "disgusting behaviour of fraud & forgery that is called "the Hadith" ".

Don't forget that the name of the topic is:

 [Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false

[/quote]

I agree that the Hadith is false.

Boru

[arewethereyet]

Then speak out against dismemberment punishments like hand amputations for theft -- now -- or STFU about "the high moral horse [sic]."

I wouldn't because I agree on the punishment. The judge who sentences it though must consider many variables before doing so (like the age of the criminal).

[quote pid='2083952' dateline='1641750183']
Winter, your "Oh poor me; the Evil West is killing us all" shtick is getting really old.  I, for one, am not the "you" in "that you blow your ammunitions on."  I live in a nation of peacekeepers who risked and often lost their lives trying to protect Muslims from other Muslims in Afghanistan.  My dad landed on Juno Beach in 1944 to help liberate Europe from the Nazis.  You dishonour their memories, and dishonour your beliefs even more, with your words.

No again you misunderstood; the west caused massacres in our land that the natives will never forget, it's not a matter of "oh poor me"; but a matter of "war reparations never payed by the west", here read the definition:

War reparations are compensation payments made after a war by one side to the other. They are intended to cover damage or injury inflicted during a war. Generally, the term refers to money or goods changing hands, but not to the  of land.

Your government should pay us for the damage they caused since WW1 and WW2 continuing to modern times, just like Japan paying the west still, they were a part of the allied forces that engineered Sykes-Picot agreement and got us Muslims into this hell.


As for the sentences in Islam; it's my religion: just don't steal from a Muslim on Muslim land.

---

Winter, your life is shit because you live in an islamic hellhole that doesn't consider you to be a full person.  Nothing to do with vikings...or canadians, with their ammo blowing religion.

I already stated the most "so called Muslim communities and governments" are not actually Muslim in terms of belief; the Vikings were just an example in the middle of a discussion that started with the "disgusting behaviour of fraud & forgery that is called "the Hadith" ".

Don't forget that the name of the topic is:

 [Quranic Reflection]: Quran vs Hadith- why the Hadith is false

[/quote]

Bold mine - several posts ago you brought up the Vikings. You derailed your own thread.

Don't forget that.

[The Grand Nudger]

They’re actually muslims, you just can’t handle the fact that your shared faith leads to brutality like chopping off hands…and your own second class status.

As far as reparation, lol. The west spent a ton of money paying off locals. What’s the problem….didn’t get your check? Sounds like an issue you might wanna take up with the local warlord.

[Astreja]

This is not a thread about proving theism. For the purpose of this thread, assume there is an omniscient being...

No, I will *not* make that assumption. I choose to live under the assumption that hell-creating deities don't exist, and that there is no reason for worshipping such a monster "just in case."

Punishing a handful of thieves according to Islamic law will drastically decrease the occurence of robbery/burglary given the harsh nature of the punishment. That's the point of Islamic law, after all.

Unacceptable. It only takes one false accusation to maim an innocent man for life.

A man in jail is also a burden for society, the cost of incarceration is very high, too.

I prefer to pay a bit extra in taxes rather than having a severed hand on my conscience.

---

Then speak out against dismemberment punishments like hand amputations for theft -- now -- or STFU about "the high moral horse [sic]."

I wouldn't because I agree on the punishment.

You're a fucking monster, and I hope your life gets even shittier than it already is.

[The Architect Of Fate]

A man in jail is also a burden for society, the cost of incarceration is very high, too.

By contrast not really 

Punishing a handful of thieves according to Islamic law will drastically decrease the occurence of robbery/burglary given the harsh nature of the punishment. That's the point of Islamic law, after all.

Another thing your dumb cult is wrong about 

[Ranjr]

Keep cutting off hands that feed you do nothing cleric jabber jaws.  Then bitch about how some outside force is keeping you down.