Theists: What is your stance on evolution?

[Ferrocyanide]

Science never brought no one back from the grave.  Only Jesus did that.  And if a monkey ever turned into a man, Jesus did that too.

Are you serious?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Science never brought no one back from the grave.  Only Jesus did that.  And if a monkey ever turned into a man, Jesus did that too.

Are you serious?

If it's not a troll, I'm not sure this will be worth the trouble.

What's the bet the insults will begin pretty much immediately?

[Agnostic1]

Science never brought no one back from the grave.  Only Jesus did that.  And if a monkey ever turned into a man, Jesus did that too.

Every time I have ever asked a religious person for an explanation or answer, to a valid question, I get references to the Bible and Jesus. I asked someone recently "How will you know when Jesus has come back? Wouldn't he just get attacked AGAIN for being 'perfect'? Why would anyone listen to him now, if they didn't listen before?" She said "We will know it's him because he will come floating down from the Heavens just the same way he went up."

That still doesn't answer the question about how he is going to get anyone to listen to him. I have heard over and over how he is going to "bring peace". How is he going to do that without getting gunned down or killed? If "Humanity" didn't listen to him the first time, why would they listen to him when he 'comes back'? They wouldn't. It is a violent, hateful world and if Jesus DID come back with only his great personality, it is a guarantee that he would get killed just for 'claiming' to be the 'son of God'. Without "powers", he will be viewed as just a blasphemer and get his ass kicked. The likely answer I will get is that, this time, he will have "Powers" from Daddy (God) and he will simply judge the living and the dead and 'take over'. Great! Why didn't he use those "powers" the first time? Instead of getting 'sacrificed' and getting his ass beaten? Why would God send his powerless 'son' to earth to make a point, in the first place, without giving him the powers to 'prove' who he is? It's never made sense to me.

If *I* were God and I sent my 'son' (or daughter...the Bible is a bit sexist) to humanity to 'save' them, my kid would come loaded with superpowers that would A-make sure they are SAFE and B-give them the VERY AMAZING and "child of God"-worthy *power* to take over and set shit straight with people. No child of this God would be getting humiliated or sacrificed. Not a chance.

Doesn't make sense...

[Ferrocyanide]

Science never brought no one back from the grave.  Only Jesus did that.  And if a monkey ever turned into a man, Jesus did that too.

Every time I have ever asked a religious person for an explanation or answer, to a valid question, I get references to the Bible and Jesus. I asked someone recently "How will you know when Jesus has come back? Wouldn't he just get attacked AGAIN for being 'perfect'? Why would anyone listen to him now, if they didn't listen before?" She said "We will know it's him because he will come floating down from the Heavens just the same way he went up."

That still doesn't answer the question about how he is going to get anyone to listen to him. I have heard over and over how he is going to "bring peace". How is he going to do that without getting gunned down or killed? If "Humanity" didn't listen to him the first time, why would they listen to him when he 'comes back'? They wouldn't. It is a violent, hateful world and if Jesus DID come back with only his great personality, it is a guarantee that he would get killed just for 'claiming' to be the 'son of God'. Without "powers", he will be viewed as just a blasphemer and get his ass kicked. The likely answer I will get is that, this time, he will have "Powers" from Daddy (God) and he will simply judge the living and the dead and 'take over'. Great! Why didn't he use those "powers" the first time? Instead of getting 'sacrificed' and getting his ass beaten? Why would God send his powerless 'son' to earth to make a point, in the first place, without giving him the powers to 'prove' who he is? It's never made sense to me.

If *I* were God and I sent my 'son' (or daughter...the Bible is a bit sexist) to humanity to 'save' them, my kid would come loaded with superpowers that would A-make sure they are SAFE and B-give them the VERY AMAZING and "child of God"-worthy *power* to take over and set shit straight with people. No child of this God would be getting humiliated or sacrificed. Not a chance.

Doesn't make sense...

How to recognize if it is Jesus? If we had a time machine and went back to the 1 st century Israel to see Jesus, I don’t think they would recognize Jesus. I’m pretty sure that you will find just ordinary humans being human.

But, let’s assume that Jesus is really the son of the jewish god.

1. How will a christian recognize him?
They don’t have a photo.
How do you recognize your parents? Because you have seen them, because you have photos.

You also get to know a person over time.
In Star Trek Voyager, the doctor is a hologram and he downloads the captains look and looks and sounds exactly like the captain. He just lacks the captain’s memories.
The 2 nd in command tests his knowledge and the doctor (looking like the captain) fails.

2. Floating down from heaven? Heaven just means space or it could mean the atmosphere. What if an alien from another planet or another dimension comes from space? What if this alien uses holographic projector or something and looks like a human?

3. What is this Jesus going to do to convince us? If he can raise the dead using magic, the alien might raise the dead with his technology.
So, this comes back to the demarcation problem.

The most important question(s):
What’s the point? Why is it important for Jesus that you believe him?
Why is Jesus going to give you the keys to heaven only if you worship him as a god and never question him?
He seems to be so sure that he is always correct and always perfect.
Is that all or is he going to ask you to kill someone?

I prefer the Star Trek way of doing things. If someone’s ship is broken, if they are stranded, if they need medical care, they provide it at no cost and don’t ask for anything.

[snowtracks]

Young Earth Creationism doesn't work because you need vast amounts of time for various physical processes to have occurred during. Trying to get them to work quickly requires violating the fundamental forces of the universe and/or a deity that's a liar.

Old Earth Creationism doesn't work because humans appear on the scene only recently. Trying to create them at some dim time in the past and hold them static over geological time without a single fossil gets ridiculous. More so when you try and explain away all those pesky similarities we share with the chimps and our other primate cousins. The entire fossil record ends up a nasty joke and the less said about genetic phylogeny the better.

Intelligent Design doesn't work because it's just creationism of one form or another wearing a fake moustache and suffers the same flaws.

Theistic Evolution doesn't work because it requires a god that ignores millions of years of barbarity and suffering before finally doing anything about it, and then only for a few paleolithic goat herders in the Sinai Penninsula.

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?  Well, obviously, after infinity was transversed, energy and matter decided to get together without a cause to do so. 

By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

[Fake Messiah]

By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

Who can remember anymore? Btw, you do know that animals have thoughts although they don't always have the language?

[The Architect Of Fate]

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?  Well, obviously, after infinity was transversed, energy and matter decided to get together without a cause to do so. 

The brain indeed functions without a blueprint blueprints only apply to man-made objects. consciousness is emergent and their no evidence to the contrary. No infinities needed to be transversed and plenty of models exclude this. Matter and Energy didn't decide anything both are emergent properties of the universe.

By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

Thoughts don't require language

[Astreja]

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?

Yes, that sounds correct. If you look at the structure of the human brain you'll see that it's a collection of smaller organs with a fairly clear developmental history. Low in the back you have the more primitive sections, the so-called "lizard brain" that acts as a switchboard of sorts, processing stimuli and triggering the release of hormones if a threat is perceived. Higher mammals, including humans, have the prefrontal cortex. This is the area of the brain that can override instinctual reactions and dictate a more rational one.

As I see it, the brain had to evolve to a certain level of complexity before it was capable of generating what we call "consciousness."

[Angrboda]

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?

Yes, that sounds correct.  If you look at the structure of the human brain you'll see that it's a collection of smaller organs with a fairly clear developmental history.  Low in the back you have the more primitive sections, the so-called "lizard brain" that acts as a switchboard of sorts, processing stimuli and triggering the release of hormones if a threat is perceived.  Higher mammals, including humans, have the prefrontal cortex.  This is the area of the brain that can override instinctual reactions and dictate a more rational one.

As I see it, the brain had to evolve to a certain level of complexity before it was capable of generating what we call "consciousness."

What if its a sliding scale such that the further back you go there are simpler and simpler versions of consciousness but it never is ever not present in some rudimentary form?

Ultimately it depends on what consciousness is. If a thermostat is conscious in some sense, then it's unlikely there was a tipping point.

[Ferrocyanide]

What other conclusion:  The brain started functioning without a blueprint for its development, and the mind and consciousness came after the physical organ?  Well, obviously, after infinity was transversed, energy and matter decided to get together without a cause to do so. 

By the way, what was that first thought before language development?

You think there is a blueprint stored somewhere?
Where is it stored?