Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 9, 2022, 4:34 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
#21
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
To hear the story told, that god isn't delivering anything - it paid for a seat on the paradise express, for you (whether you get to take it or not), by killing the better man - itself.

Another example of how being bizarre is the sop. Why would a bizarre god do bizarre things? See: bizarre.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#22
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
(December 17, 2021 at 9:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: To hear the story told, that god isn't delivering anything - it paid for a seat on the paradise express, for you (whether you get to take it or not), by killing the better man - itself.

According to christian theology, yes, that is basically it.
The New Testament portion can be condensed if Jesus just showed up and said, “Go ahead and shoot me and everyone’s sins will be forgiven. I’m a lamb. I’m a sop.”
I don’t think it matters who shoots him. Anyone can take the gun and shoot him to death.

A christian might say but then nobody would be convinced that he is the son of the jewish god or the jewish god.

My response would be, if you go to heaven, how are you going to recognize which one is god?
Will he use an ID card?
On his jacket, does he have “Hi, I am a god” sticker?
Does he have to do magic tricks for you, such as healing sick people, walking on water each time you meet him? How many magics does he need to perform at minimum?

(December 17, 2021 at 9:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Another example of how being bizarre is the sop.  Why would a bizarre god do bizarre things?  See: bizarre.

Well, first we check what the actions are of this god and what he says.
That’s how we can figure out if he is bizarre or not.

The steps are like this:
1. The god does some action.
2. I observe the god. (This is the data collection step. This is the input step.)
3. I judge whether this god can be qualified as bizarre or not. (This is the analysis and output step).

For step 2, it would be many different observers. Even the god can be an observer.
At step 3, each person judges for himself.
Reply
#23
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
Jesus never managed to convince it was a god anyway. Christianity didn't spring forth in that alleged moment. It was an unremarkable and developing cult in a sea of developing cults for centuries after the supposed demigod ended his alleged show.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#24
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
That is explainable with plane old mundane naturalism/materialism. I think most of us on the forum arrived at the same explanation.

1. A lot of people are born. Some want to be blacksmiths, some want to be barbers, some want to be farmers, etc.
A few times a year, some overconfident and delusion person gets born thinking that the gods are talking to him (a prophet).
2. It seems that the prophet is over 99% of the time a male. Maybe females are born but they lack the confidence or people did not follow them.
(I know that in the Heaven Gates movement, there was Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettle. USA. 20 th century.)
3. The prophet needs to have the right qualities. He needs to make pretty speeches to attract people.
His religion needs to offer utopia + hell (death, eternal life in jail).

4. So, various cults compete. Some survive. It’s Evolution for religions.

In the case of christianity, it reached Helen, the mother of the king and that gave christianity a big help.
I know that in the case of Armenia, the story is that the king was convinced and made it the state religion in 301 CE.
That helps to make other religions illegal.
Reply
#25
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
Going back to the OP: Jesus explaining the parable of the tares to his disciples is a literary device - the author wanted to make damned sure (pun very much intended) that the hoi polloi got the message.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply
#26
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
(December 7, 2021 at 12:30 am)Ferrocyanide Wrote:
Quote:Matthew 13:24 KING JAMES VERSION
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: {13:25} But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. {13:26} But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. {13:27} So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? {13:28} He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? {13:29} But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. {13:30} Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. {13:31} Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: {13:32} Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof. {13:33} Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. {13:34} All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: {13:35} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. {13:36} Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. {13:37} He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; {13:38} The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; {13:39} The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. {13:40} As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. {13:41} The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; {13:42} And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. {13:43} Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. {13:44} Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. {13:45} Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: {13:46} Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. {13:47} Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: {13:48} Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. {13:49} So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, {13:50} And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. {13:51} Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.

The parable section starts at 13:24 up to 13:30
Jesus tells that parable to people and Jesus sends the people away.
13:36 says that the Jesus goes into a house and the 12 guys come into the house and ask him: Can you explain to us that story?

The story seems pretty straightforward to me.
What are the 12 guys having difficulty with?

Also, if we read
Quote:Matthew 13:10 KING JAMES VERSION
And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {13:11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, shouldn’t the 12 guys automatically understand the secret of Matthew 13:24?
The other problem is that someone decided to document the explanation @ 13:37 and here we are. The data is not encrypted. We are all reading the secret.

++++++++

The apostles and disciples of the Lord JESUS, the CHRIST were / are human not unlike other human beings – we all having finite understanding! So, it is not unusual for us not to understand something ab initio, especially spiritual matters - in considering the spiritual condition of mankind since the fall and separation from the Almighty – but GOD has declared that He will teach all His own / all He saves!


“It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.” – John 6:45

The Lord JESUS is Wisdom! How then can the created purport to be wiser than the Creator? The LOGOS! (in reading some of the responses to your initial post).  
For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” – Luke 4:11 – “But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” – James 4:6

Here are at least four Biblical examples of the apostles and disciples growing in knowledge and from grace to grace – as do all other true believers / children of CHRIST.
  • “After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?” Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.” Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” - John 13: 5-8
  • “Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” - John 14: 8-11
  • The Lord JESUS met two of his disciples on the road to Emmaus – the eyes of the two were “restrained” (verse 16), until the Lord JESUS opened them to know (verses 25-27 and verses 30-31 of Luke chapter 24)
  • Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.  But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.” – Luke 24:36-45
Reply
#27
RE: Explanation Required by the 12 guys? + the secret.
(December 19, 2021 at 1:20 pm)Mercyvessel Wrote:
(December 7, 2021 at 12:30 am)Ferrocyanide Wrote: The parable section starts at 13:24 up to 13:30
Jesus tells that parable to people and Jesus sends the people away.
13:36 says that the Jesus goes into a house and the 12 guys come into the house and ask him: Can you explain to us that story?

The story seems pretty straightforward to me.
What are the 12 guys having difficulty with?

Also, if we read

So, shouldn’t the 12 guys automatically understand the secret of Matthew 13:24?
The other problem is that someone decided to document the explanation @ 13:37 and here we are. The data is not encrypted. We are all reading the secret.

The apostles and disciples of the Lord JESUS, the CHRIST were / are human not unlike other human beings – we all having finite understanding! So, it is not unusual for us not to understand something ab initio, especially spiritual matters - in considering the spiritual condition of mankind since the fall and separation from the Almighty – but GOD has declared that He will teach all His own / all He saves!

Personally, I find the disciples to be dimwitted.
The parable at Matthew 13:24, as told by Jesus, and others (that are also told by Jesus) as well, are quite understandable and yet, the disciples are having a hard time deciphering it.
Mercyvessel, are you having a hard time understanding them?

Also, the disciples don’t ask too many questions.
Doesn’t the jewish population have curious people? Don’t they have scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, engineers who are curious about the world around them?

The son of god shows up and nobody asks any advanced questions.

Quote:It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.” – John 6:45


I would be happy to ask questions but Jesus has been dead for a long time.
Sure, there is the case of Mohammed of the 7 th century, Joseph Smith of the 19 th century who supposedly talk to Jesus or one of his friends, but once again, there isn’t anything of value offered.
It’s just a set of mostly unverifiable claims.
The claims that can be verified, such as Jesus claiming that the mustard plant’s seed is the smallest is wrong. His claim that it grows into a tree and birds nest in it seems wrong to me.

Quote:The Lord JESUS is Wisdom! How then can the created purport to be wiser than the Creator? The LOGOS! (in reading some of the responses to your initial post).  

“For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” – Luke 4:11 – “But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” – James 4:6



I know that the Jesus/jewish god combo consider themselves to be super geniuses.
Burger King says that they make great hamburgers.
These are claims. We need to perform a taste test.

Quote:After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, “Lord, are You washing my feet?” Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this.” Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” - John 13: 5-8


I think that is a beautiful story.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the tools to verify it.


Quote:“Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” - John 14: 8-11

I think that is a beautiful story.
It looks like Jesus is talking about about trust. I noticed that Jesus used the word “believe” 3 times.


Quote:The Lord JESUS met two of his disciples on the road to Emmaus – the eyes of the two were “restrained” (verse 16), until the Lord JESUS opened them to know (verses 25-27 and verses 30-31 of Luke chapter 24)


I think that is a beautiful story.

Quote:Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.  But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.” – Luke 24:36-45


Man, these guys are always terrified and frightened.
The issue with belief is raised again.
So, Jesus is a ghost and asks them to touch his hands and feet.
Ghost Jesus eats some fish and honeycomb.

So, what did these guys comprehend? What is it that they did not understand before and now, they understand.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Evolutionary explanation of religion cyber_freddy 33 1343 December 25, 2020 at 6:52 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  These Guys Could Give Religion A Good Name. Minimalist 2 631 March 15, 2018 at 12:45 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  You guys are right. Mystic 54 6367 February 5, 2018 at 10:30 am
Last Post: haig
Exclamation Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of Human Life, vaahaa 19 2127 September 18, 2017 at 1:46 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Maybe you guys are mixing religion with God Fk789 36 2631 November 1, 2016 at 2:46 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Secret Ceremonies (book) vodkafan 1 911 August 19, 2014 at 9:34 am
Last Post: RobbyPants
  Aren't fundamentalists the 'good' guys? Dystopia 16 3045 August 4, 2014 at 10:46 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Possible explanation of supernatural religious visitations BlackMason 15 3350 May 13, 2014 at 5:21 am
Last Post: Confused Ape
  A rational explanation for hell? Ace Otana 265 102178 January 26, 2014 at 9:08 am
Last Post: Mudhammam
  Here is Practical Explanation about Next Life, Purpose of Human Life - thunderhulk 30 6712 December 16, 2013 at 5:58 pm
Last Post: Lemonvariable72



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)