The Future of Democracy

[JairCrawford]

I think we need to accept the fact that it's not a small crowd of vocal people. Just like it's never actually been a bunch of lone wolves.

We're at a low point right now because the majority of the majority demo in the us believes that democracy is, in some strange way, victimizing them. That's not fixable. Even disproportionate representation isn't enough.

I don’t know if I’m convinced of the “majority of the majority” being anti-democratic. I think the true ‘silent majority’ in the US is fairly centrist (that is, centrist in the American sense), at least based on more recent observations. But I don’t think most of them actively want to see democracy end. I only hear that type of rhetoric from the far-right.

[The Grand Nudger]

You may not be, but they are. If the center in the us is some negotiation towards the middle between between a liberal democracy and white separatism.......

Been saying it forever - we gave this thing wings when we refused to believe what a majority of white voters were telling complete strangers on the phone in polls. Great replacement nuttery has broad purchase across the entire right wing spectrum - through the center, and into the moderate left. The only thing that changes as you get to the moderate left is that they believe it's happening...but that it's a good thing. All drinking from the same poisoned chalice.

[JairCrawford]

You may not be, but they are. If the center in the us is some negotiation towards the middle between between a liberal democracy and white separatism.......

Been saying it forever - we gave this thing wings when we refused to believe what a majority of white voters were telling strangers on the phone in polls. Great replacement nuttery has broad purchase across the entire right wing spectrum - through the center, and into the moderate left. The only thing that changes as you get to the moderate left is that they believe it's happening...but that it's a good thing. All drinking from the same poisoned well.

Which polls? Do you have links because I’m quite curious now.

Also, based on polls I read recently, it seems that part of the issue is that a majority of the electorate in the US is now socially liberal, but still fiscally conservative.

[The Grand Nudger]

In 2017, a slim majority of white americans, 55%, believed that reverse racism was a bigger issue than regular old traditional american racism. The number jumped up to a whopping 75% of republicans by 2019. By 2021, "CRT" was the right wing issue. They've not been softening on this, and centrists are still (as they've been since 2016) suggesting that the way forward is to negotiate with open and single minded bigots for some of the bigoted things they want, in return for some small pittance of non cooperation on..say, paying our bills, or repairing our roads. They are already sympathetic to the great replacement bullshit. Lower and middle income whites have been shown to be repeatedly and persistently susceptible to this messaging.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836...ed-against
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/po...on-806242/

It's culture war yesterday, cultur war today, culture war tommorrow. Culture war forever. Until rahowa comes - which some people are already trying to incite. See the separatist who copped to opening fire on police during the summer protests in the belief that it would escalate violence and start a new civil war. The mainstream (on bothsides™) is giving the reich wing militants political and social cover - and has been for some time now. They are not now, nor have they ever been lone wolves.

If you'd like links on how the centrists and the moderate left view the same non-thing through a different lens, I can supply you with those as well - right wing polls put the number slightly higher, but they're chiefly engaged in building consent for this ridiculous notion - so, grain of salt along with a heaping dose of realizing that any given bigot is more likely to let their freak flag fly if they think they're talking to a friendly audience. Mind you, I won't just be pointing the finger. I'm wildly conservative on fiscal and foreign policy, and wildly liberal on domestic policy and social issues. I think that they're traitors to a man and see no way this ends without their heads on pikes. I'm not interested in hearing their grievances - which is..in and of itself, anti-democratic.

[JairCrawford]

In 2017, a slim majority of white americans, 55%, believed that reverse racism was a bigger issue than regular old traditional american racism. The number jumped up to a whopping 75% of republicans by 2019. By 2021, "CRT" was the right wing issue. They've not been softening on this, and centrists are still (as they've been since 2016) suggesting that the way forward is to negotiate with open and single minded bigots for some of the bigoted things they want, in return for some small pittance of non cooperation on..say, paying our bills, or repairing our roads. They are already sympathetic to the great replacement bullshit.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559604836...ed-against
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/po...on-806242/

It's culture war yesterday, cultur war today, culture war tommorrow. Culture war forever. Until rahowa comes - which some people are already trying to incite. See the separatist who copped to opening fire on police during the summer protests in the belief that it would escalate violence and start a new civil war. The mainstream is giving radicalized militants political and social cover - and has been for some time now. They are not now, nor have they ever been lone wolves.

Is there not a chance that CRT is being used as a “wedge issue”, and in and of itself may not be an actual concern to a lot of centrists? I don’t think centrists in VA voted for Youngkin because of “CRT bad”, but rather, because they felt disenfranchised by a lack of childcare while the schools kept closing for COVID. The far right then took this frustration and combined it with making a boogeyman out of CRT to also appeal to the crazies and this combination worked. At least, that’s my theory. But maybe I’m too optimistic?

I’m curious to see any interesting polls you’ve got.

[The Grand Nudger]

That it has value as a wedge issue is, itself, a demonstration of the apprehensions of american voters.

You have your thoughts - and then you have the deliberate campaign strategy of glenn youngkin and the comments of people who voted for him. The two are directly at odds. It has always been our refusal..not failure, our refusal to acknowledge this issue in our society that's lead to it's perpetuation. Moreso now as demographic shift accelerates - which people all across the spectrum derive phenomenally bad takes from which inform their voting habits. All that said..I'm an optimist too. I think the us is going to be just fine, and one day, this will be the united states of earth.

After every last white separatist is dead and buried.

[JairCrawford]

That it has value as a wedge issue is, itself, a demonstration of the apprehensions of american voters.

You have your thoughts - and then you have the deliberate campaign strategy of glenn youngkin and the comments of people who voted for him. The two are directly at odds. It has always been our refusal..not failure, our refusal to acknowledge this issue in our society that's lead to it's perpetuation. Moreso now as demographic shift accelerates - which people all across the spectrum derive phenomenally bad takes from which inform their voting habits. All that said..I'm an optimist too. I think the us is going to be just fine, and one day, this will be the united states of earth.

After every last white separatist is dead and buried.

I remember watching some interviews with people who claimed they were independents, shortly after the VA election. They all cited issues such as school closures and the like to why they voted for Youngkin. Of course there’s always the concern that they’re not saying what they’re actually thinking.

I remember the summer of 2020… I thought I was seeing the winds of change in the right direction. There seemed to be such unity for justice. Then the conservative backlash hit and I wasn’t expecting it to be so… bad. But at the same time, I feel like we saw more of the true majority in 2020, standing together in solidarity.

[The Grand Nudger]

It's certainly true that there are more people who disagree with this sort of shit than people who agree...but isn't that the problem with democracy, as they see it?

In the meantime, it doesn't matter that there are more of you and your ideological peers, they've already engineered minority control over the majority (likely before you were born) on that count. The way they did that was by exploiting great replacement shit...hard...for the last decade.

---

For flavor, as if this wasn't manifestly apparent everywhere one cared to look - just yesterday.... an afro-cuban white separatist got rolled by cops in his underwear in miami, charged with criminal conspiracy in relation to jan6..and, truly..that was just one tiny and relatively unimportant day in his capacity as a booster for the apocalypse.

Anytime you doubt the broad appeal of white supremacist propaganda, think "indicted afro-cuban white separatist community organizer".



Ironically, since you're our new christian, the Rise of the Nones is palpably driven by straight white christian dominionism aka western chauvinism by any other name. These poor fucks know the cliff is coming because they keep catching their kids and siblings talking massive shit about them and everything they believe on Discord - hence the whole internet as satans tool song and dance. It's the reason, if there is any, that I'm not some sort of contemporary christo-pagan apologist. These dipshits are going to take your country and your religion down with them, and all because they're unimpressive unfuckables - and sad for all of the progressive christians of the world..your only allies are people who would just as soon see that culture ground to dust in the immediate future. Plenty of better reasons, but that's neither here nor there - this is the one they're going with.

Multiple rocks, multiple hard places. The only guarantee is misery for all involved. There's an argument to be had as to whether or not the inevitable product of god bothering ideology amounts to this - but...we're skipping that step..and just deciding as a society that it does. Good luck. Hope you're the right shade of lipstick. There's a purported existential crisis, of asserted religious import, driving contemporary politics at present. How does that play out everywhere else, and how committed are you to the idea of american exceptionalism? Ultimately, democracy in the us will die - at least for a time - because christians wanted it to. Wasn't working for them anymore. Going forward, when I suggest that marrying a socially im-permissive theocratic scheme to the redeeming value of killing the better minority as the worst idea in all of human history for the suffering engendered - the us, right now, and the world with respect to the us, will be my case example.

[JairCrawford]

Yep, having been in pretty conservative Pentecostal circles in the recent past, I’m unfortunately familiar with dominion theology. I keep trying to tell people it’s a bad idea.

I looked up more information on this so called “Great Replacement” theory… dangerous. Very dangerous stuff. It needs to be vilified to the same level as that QAnon crap but there appears, as you said, to be a lot of blind eyes being turned to this particular conspiracy. Yikes.

[The Grand Nudger]

That you can find great replacement shit on OANN -and- CNN is the reason that it's dangerous. If you want the rosetta stone - all the way back in the 90's a guy named mitch berbrier called it.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20832074

The Wife keeps telling people it's a bad idea too, up to and including her own father - a former central american missionary and peace activist - now a rabid separatist and culture war mongering magat. A man who's giving his retirement pennies to the grifters against the advice of his children and his bank account and his own and his wife's medical necessities. This is the norm. Watched it happen to him, and it hurt my heart. I, a cultural pagan, was to raise and provide for his traditionally christian grandchildren. Now he's a non-entity in our lives...and you'd better believe that influences him at the polls. To the point where he cant accept a gift form "the libs". The Wife's parents live in a 20ft rv. I offered to give them a 3600ft2 "liberal" house on two acres under commercial production. A residence and an income. They declined. They're sticking to their guns.

-and this is how the world ends, this is how the world ends. Not with a bang, but with a whisper.

The painful part? She actually thought that her life and her decisions would engender her to her father. Here is someone who thinks that this world is a gift as much as her father does, even as many other people don't see it that way. Didn't work - and never you mind that I'm a natural neocon who's had his turkey literally cut by the bushes while I was serving as a combatant in the war against terror. Not enough. All dissenting views, however minor, are fundamentally illegitimate in the minds of our contemporary anti-democratics.

Hence....."if you count the legal votes I win." He wasn't taking about just the whites......illegitimate votes encompass at least some causasian votes. -Race Traitors...like me, I guess? In fairness, up above - that's not really a redneck mullet. That's me counting coup on the enemies of my people. -broadly defined.

The amusing bit being that his grandkids were raised a certain way...anyway........I believe in an objective right and wrong, an objective sense of what is sacred, and even though all of this coincides with his very newly found white separatist views, which I grew up with and he didn't....here we are now. As a family.