Job

[The Grand Nudger]

All bound up into their idea of the sort of power, and the authority, and the fundamental in-accountability that a god possessed. Particularly with respect to the states of human affairs but, ultimately - historically- to all states of all affairs.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I think the Job legend excels at making the case that is the equivalent of an abusive parent.

Say you have a child and you are as confident as Canby that your child loves you. One day, your neighbour stops by and makes the case that your child’s love for you isn’t real - the tyke only thinks he loves you because he’s well fed, warmly dressed, properly housesld, etc. 

To prove that your child does love you, you allow your neighbour to hire some local bullies to beat up your child every day on his way home from school. And you promise not to interfere. Psychotic.

Boru

[Fake Messiah]

You guys are genuinely convinced that if Job were here he would side with atheists and God accusers?

Job would side with believers because he is a character in a fictional story where God and Satan exist, just like characters in Lord of the Rings books believe in wizards and dragons.

For if Job were merely to perish as the un-proven, yet most faithful man on earth then who would record his tale?

That's how it is with characters from the literature - they can be perfect in what their writers want them to be, unlike real people. Like when God tells Abraham to kill his son and Abraham obeys without question, or Jesus who never had a sexual thought, etc.

[HappySkeptic]

That's how it is with characters from the literature - they can be perfect in what their writers want them to be, unlike real people. Like when God tells Abraham to kill his son and Abraham obeys without question, or Jesus who never had a sexual thought, etc.

I'm pretty sure a "real" Abraham would be a schizophrenic, and a "real" Jesus would have been shagging Mary Magdalene.

[h311inac311]

Reading your own lack of faith and morals into the text?

Would if an omniscient God knew more than you?

What do you think would happen if an omniscient being, who created the universe, and knows the end from the beginning, sat down with you to have a conversation?
Would if he told you what perfect living actually looked like? Would he blow your mind? Or would you just sit there nodding your head saying "yes, that makes sense to me."?

Imagine you are a parent, let's say you're 100 years old, you've travelled the world, attended many lectures on philosophy and read many books on the subject. Now you have to sit down with a 10 year old and explain everything you know. Would the little boy just nod his head and think, "yeah, this all makes sense to me intuitively."? Or would there be something you could call to his attention that would be shocking?

The teaspoon can't comprehend the ocean.

[Gwaithmir]

Reading your own lack of faith and morals into the text?

Would if an omniscient God knew more than you?

What do you think would happen if an omniscient being, who created the universe, and knows the end from the beginning, sat down with you to have a conversation?
Would if he told you what perfect living actually looked like? Would he blow your mind? Or would you just sit there nodding your head saying "yes, that makes sense to me."?

Imagine you are a parent, let's say you're 100 years old, you've travelled the world, attended many lectures on philosophy and read many books on the subject. Now you have to sit down with a 10 year old and explain everything you know. Would the little boy just nod his head and think, "yeah, this all makes sense to me intuitively."? Or would there be something you could call to his attention that would be shocking?

The teaspoon can't comprehend the ocean.

So, you think Job had the mentality of a 10-year-old, and that somehow absolves God of his crimes against Job and his family?

[The Grand Nudger]

Those sorts of excuses betray the fact that the excuser -also- sees a bad thing…and hopes that some hidden or unknown factor will rescue its morality.

[Brian37]

Hey guys, I'm new here but I was encouraged by a few members to start my own topic so hopefully this is okay even though I just got here.

For my first topic I would like us to discuss the book of Job as it is one of my favorite books of the Bible. For me personally I have always viewed suffering as a necessary thing that tests and proves our values and convictions. But I also find that the problem of suffering is often the biggest obstacle to faith for many people. It is such a personal thing, how can a loving God allow for an innocent man to suffer? How is it that he could allow for some of the worst things to happen to some of the best people?

So simply put, this thread is dedicated to the problem of suffering in our belief system but to make the topic a little more specific (and interesting) I would also like to get your guys views on the story of Job specifically.

That is one of many extremely horrible and vile stories if one is going to claim it to be an example of good morality.

If a spouse treated the other like God treats Job, most sane people would tell that abused person to get out of the relationship. If I had a friend who treated me like God treats Job I would separate company with them and never speak to them again.

So why do good things happen to bad people? Because it happens. Just like nobody wants an earthquake hurting them, it still happens. Our species ability to be extremely cruel, or extremely compassionate is in our evolution as individuals. Inserting an allegedly "all powerful" being into it puts you into the position of being a lab rat. In real life compassionate people do everything they can to stop something when they have the power. The God character, under the "all powerful" parameter, has absolutely no excuse.

[Fake Messiah]

Reading your own lack of faith and morals into the text?

So what kind of morality are we lacking that you have?

[possibletarian]

Reading your own lack of faith and morals into the text?

Would if an omniscient God knew more than you?

What do you think would happen if an omniscient being, who created the universe, and knows the end from the beginning, sat down with you to have a conversation?
Would if he told you what perfect living actually looked like? Would he blow your mind? Or would you just sit there nodding your head saying "yes, that makes sense to me."?

Imagine you are a parent, let's say you're 100 years old, you've travelled the world, attended many lectures on philosophy and read many books on the subject. Now you have to sit down with a 10 year old and explain everything you know. Would the little boy just nod his head and think, "yeah, this all makes sense to me intuitively."? Or would there be something you could call to his attention that would be shocking?

The teaspoon can't comprehend the ocean.

Frankly that's really stupid, why would a god create creatures to have a close loving relationship then make them unable to understand what he was about ?

It's like being able to custom design a child that you want to spend time with and have a close relationship with and limit their IQ to 10 !