Job

[Pat Mustard]

This was more so a response to Happy Skeptic who asserted that Abraham wouldn't have offered up his son as a sacrifice.

You guys have to consider the other side of the coin, if God is real then we are to live our lives with his will in mind. Even when we cannot comprehend his good will. Ultimately, with heaven in view, our suffering here on earth is here today and gone tomorrow.

I find that in our modern world most people don't even begin to consider how their actions will affect the next generation until they are holding a baby in their arms.

But such is the affect that materialism would have, am I not correct?

Yes, I too find that christians are far more likely to be selfish, self absorbed and unconcerned for others.

It is baked into their religion after all.

@h311inac311 Just a post scriptum, from what I know of christianity (which is a damned sight more than you do, I wager), hell is preferrable to heaven. What reward is it to be an eternal slave to a sadistic tyrant and having to constantly sing his praises? He's eventually going to do awful things to you to satisfy his psychopathy. Better to hang out with history's more interesting and more moral people.

[TheJefe817]

@h311inac311 Just a post scriptum, from what I know of christianity (which is a damned sight more than you do, I wager), hell is preferrable to heaven.  What reward is it to be an eternal slave to a sadistic tyrant and having to constantly sing his praises?  He's eventually going to do awful things to you to satisfy his psychopathy.  Better to hang out with history's more interesting and more moral people.

This made me think of Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell" which I read recently.  I know opinions on Bart are sometimes mixed, but he's presenting more of a history of different heaven and hell traditions in this than opinions, mostly.  I was unaware of a lot of it, and it made me wonder why people are even in fear of hell (or hopeful of what heaven would be) given the changing and confusing narrative.

And of course, Hitchens' famous analogy of heaven as a spiritual North Korea.

[Belacqua]

@h311inac311 Just a post scriptum, from what I know of christianity (which is a damned sight more than you do, I wager), hell is preferrable to heaven.  What reward is it to be an eternal slave to a sadistic tyrant and having to constantly sing his praises?  He's eventually going to do awful things to you to satisfy his psychopathy.  Better to hang out with history's more interesting and more moral people.

This made me think of Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell" which I read recently.  I know opinions on Bart are sometimes mixed, but he's presenting more of a history of different heaven and hell traditions in this than opinions, mostly.  I was unaware of a lot of it, and it made me wonder why people are even in fear of hell (or hopeful of what heaven would be) given the changing and confusing narrative.

And of course, Hitchens' famous analogy of heaven as a spiritual North Korea.

If Ehrman's book is any good, people will come away from it knowing why Hitchens' analogy is idiotic.

[The Grand Nudger]

More like it very accurately reflects an extremely idiotic idea which is all too common among the religious as an article of their faiths, but go off.

[Pat Mustard]

@h311inac311 Just a post scriptum, from what I know of christianity (which is a damned sight more than you do, I wager), hell is preferrable to heaven.  What reward is it to be an eternal slave to a sadistic tyrant and having to constantly sing his praises?  He's eventually going to do awful things to you to satisfy his psychopathy.  Better to hang out with history's more interesting and more moral people.

This made me think of Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell" which I read recently.  I know opinions on Bart are sometimes mixed, but he's presenting more of a history of different heaven and hell traditions in this than opinions, mostly.  I was unaware of a lot of it, and it made me wonder why people are even in fear of hell (or hopeful of what heaven would be) given the changing and confusing narrative.

And of course, Hitchens' famous analogy of heaven as a spiritual North Korea.

Milton's Lucifer was right, it is better to rule in hell than to be an abject slave in heaven.

[polymath257]

This made me think of Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell" which I read recently.  I know opinions on Bart are sometimes mixed, but he's presenting more of a history of different heaven and hell traditions in this than opinions, mostly.  I was unaware of a lot of it, and it made me wonder why people are even in fear of hell (or hopeful of what heaven would be) given the changing and confusing narrative.

And of course, Hitchens' famous analogy of heaven as a spiritual North Korea.

Milton's Lucifer was right, it is better to rule in hell than to be an abject slave in heaven.

Whom reason hath equaled
Force hath made supreme
Above his equals.

[polymath257]

Blow my mind? Sure. But I would be much more interested in the science a deity could convey as opposed to the 'perfect life'. At the least, I could verify the science is correct by testing. A perfect life isn't even something that I think can exist, let alone be the same for everyone, or dependent on the viewpoint of any entity, even a deity.

But morality isn't like science. it is a matter of opinion and not of fact. So yes, I *can* judge the morality of a deity. Furthermore, I think that doing so is an ethical obligation if you actually believe a deity exists.

A 10 year old would likely listen, maybe ask questions, and maybe eventually come to different conclusions than I did. Those things that are not understood could be relegated to a later date to consider.

If you, as a mathematician, were (say for $200) perform an experiment where you toss a half-dollar into the air 100 times, and I, claiming prophetic powers, provided you the exact sequence of heads & tails that you will get in a sealed envelope in advance, would you be impressed by that fact, the $200 notwithstanding?

That would mainly make me suspect the coin.

[LinuxGal]

This made me think of Ehrman's book "Heaven and Hell" which I read recently.  I know opinions on Bart are sometimes mixed, but he's presenting more of a history of different heaven and hell traditions in this than opinions, mostly.  I was unaware of a lot of it, and it made me wonder why people are even in fear of hell (or hopeful of what heaven would be) given the changing and confusing narrative.

And of course, Hitchens' famous analogy of heaven as a spiritual North Korea.

Milton's Lucifer was right, it is better to rule in hell than to be an abject slave in heaven.

Heaven doesn't want me and Hell's afraid I'll take over.

[Pat Mustard]

Milton's Lucifer was right, it is better to rule in hell than to be an abject slave in heaven.

Heaven doesn't want me and Hell's afraid I'll take over.

Well then, make your own afterlife, with blackjack and hookers.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

‘We seek Heaven for the climate and Hell for the company.’ - Twain

Boru