[Serious] A Literal Bible. Answering questions

[Jehanne]

Christian beliefs have changed so much and so often over the centuries. For instance, it was widely believed during the Middle Ages that women were "failed men" who, during their fetal development, had failed to develop into a full male, hence, were fe-males. Who today defends that one?!

[Anomalocaris]

I know a guy who reads the entire thing (and has read the entire thing..multiple times) and takes it all literally.  Get this..he manages to do so without being a complete buffoon about it.

So that part is elective.  It's not so much a requirement of a literal faith that a person cherry pick, or even deny that all evidence is aligned against their own literalist beliefs.  No need to come up with alternate explanations for passages, or even reconcile them.  It's all true.  How?  Who knows.  A genuine belief in the miraculous completely evades any attempt at rational explanation - because there isn't one.  The attempts to mold these myths into something rationally explicable is a product of the success of the sciences and secular humanism.  Shamans, witchdoctors, and other assorted cosplayers have been yanking the fire alarm about this for a long time.  In sum, an attempt to explain god by way of the natural and rational, within the context of human values - rather than the other way around.

How many significant digits?

[arewethereyet]

Moderator Notice
Let's remember the serious tag, that I forgot about on this thread, and keep things civil. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Mister Agenda]

There is no slander here.

Boru

Correction; there is no argument here, you called my post drivel and refused to back your claim with anything. If you make a statement without evidence or logic then I will have no problem dismissing it without evidence or logic.

You're a big fish Boru, but how deep is the water?

Are you missing Boru's complaint that you have his name signed after your words? I'm sure it was unintentional but it's a major faux pas and at the time I write this, you've done nothing to correct it. You're not in an argument with Boru, you're in a pissing match.

[Mister Agenda]

The empathy point is a general point. 
In that specific example; a comet airburst involves an intense flash of light and heat, similar to a nuclear bomb. It lasts a moment, and doesn't penetrate the terrain. Getting up into the mountains for cover was the objective of the party, so it would stand to reason they were in mountainous terrain that shielded them from this effect, since they survived. One person being out in the open, observed by others in cover, is not a ridiculous idea. 
Having empathy for the author, who was having empathy for the figure in the story (which was derived from an Acacia bush, so the author says), is how you realise that 'pillar of salt' is the best terms a man who had no idea that space existed or what exactly was going on, could use to describe the appearance of what he saw.

I think Hebrew is perfectly capable of describing someone burning into ashes in an instant. 'Pillar of Salt' is not remotely a good description of what a witness would have seen if there were such an airburst.

It's speculation but it sounds like the kind of story that often grows around unusual geological features. If someone saw a pillar of salt on a plain that in any way resembled a woman, a story about how the supposed woman got that way would almost certainly follow.

[Angrboda]

I'm sure the heat from such a burst is considerable, but I doubt it's sufficient to turn someone to ash.

[The Grand Nudger]

Christianity is in the midst of an identity crisis. How a dominant religion manages to settle itself in new societal circumstances has...historically, been very consequential. Literalism and psuedo-literalism are utterly bankrupt today. Leaving a person who feels the need for a literal (possibly inerrant) story or historic events accurately-enough-described with a choice. Faith or reason. I don't mean anything over-broad here. Just faith in the narrative contents factual nature. There's intellectual honesty in choosing, and explicitly choosing, faith - even if there's little to no intellectual rigor to that option.

For most of the posters here that's going to be a non-starter. I'd suggest that it's just as difficult for any contemporary christian as well. They went to the same schools, they're a product of the same culture. Psuedo-realism only exists as an internal negotiation between superstition believed to be essential to religious assertions...and reality as we (atheist and believer alike) know it. A person who refers to a black sea deluge hypothesis as support for the contents of the old testament, for example, has implied that they believe in waters rising up and the sky falling down and a giant gopher wood boat...about as much as any of us.

If faith over reason is essentially genuine but lacking in rigor, and reason over faith is essentially rigorous but lacks honesty - I'd put psuedo-realism (and contemporary metaphoric interpretations) at an unfortunate point somewhere in the middle - and note that it just might be the default product of our society. Managing to lack both honesty and rigor - to no easily discernible end or benefit. From the point of view of faith narratives like these are fundamentally miraculous. They aren't even approachable by reason. No amount of rigor could ever give a satisfying answer. No piece of evidence or indeed the entire universe of evidence aligned against it is relevant. From the point of view of reason. The narrative contents factuality is irrelevant to the normative contents truth. There are a set of things that are permissible, and a set of things that are taboo. Some thing is held to be sacred and a description of a good life that follows from those three things stands or falls regardless of the fact that no fairy ever flooded a single inch of the earth. If there was never any voice from the beyond telling us this fable so that we might get the point.

The trick for modern christianity and modern christians, imo, is to do some pretty thorough introspection. To decide which of these two broad paths before them their religion will take. Where the majority of it's effort will be expended going forward. If, otoh, it remains stuck in the forever holding pattern of psuedo-literalism...then it's going to continue looking like it does. A demographic cliff. A generation or two of cultural christians without religion....and then nothing. Yet another footnote in the endless procession of gods.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think Hebrew is perfectly capable of describing someone burning into ashes in an instant. 'Pillar of Salt' is not remotely a good description of what a witness would have seen if there were such an airburst.

It's speculation but it sounds like the kind of story that often grows around unusual geological features. If someone saw a pillar of salt on a plain that in any way resembled a woman, a story about how the supposed woman got that way would almost certainly follow.

-and in that way, helpful navigational waypoints would be neatly encoded in a society's establishment legend.  We're often told that these stories are a map for life.

....well........?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Correction; there is no argument here, you called my post drivel and refused to back your claim with anything. If you make a statement without evidence or logic then I will have no problem dismissing it without evidence or logic.

You're a big fish Boru, but how deep is the water?

Are you missing Boru's complaint that you have his name signed after your words? I'm sure it was unintentional but it's a major faux pas and  at the time I write this, you've done nothing to correct it. You're not in an argument with Boru, you're in a pissing match.

A match I am happy to concede.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

It's said that the sun broke through the clouds and a sweet scent filled the air when the buddha, and the one true religion, first entered the world.

Should we apply psuedo-literalism here, to break some unmentioned dichotomy? Are we to believe that...even just in the one room, the birth of some person made the sun came through clouds and the air smell sweeter?