Credible/Honest Apologetics?

[The Grand Nudger]

It's amazing to me...there are tons of credible authors that write about christianity - but they don't make a dime in the christian market. It's nothing but straight hacks and con men dominating that demo.

[Data]

As I go through the process of continually reexamining by beliefs (largely now former beliefs), I remain committed to being open minded and considering all sides of any issue.  Honestly, that what has led to my deconversion - considering sources and facts which were hidden/forbidden/shouted down in my world for decades.  To that end, I find a lot on the atheist/agnostic/none position which I find very intellectually satisfying and honest.  Everyone has their bias, so no one is truly down the middle, but in particular I enjoy reading Shermer, Ehrman, Harris, etc - all the ones you might expect.

So my question is - does anyone have suggetions on where to look on the theist side for something honest?  I say that because the sources I am pointed toward by theists tend to feel like sales jobs treading over well-worn arguments (Kalaam, Pascal, gaps, etc) rather than true explorations.  I'm getting suggested folks like WL Craig, Habermas, Strobel, Licona - and I just feel like they are all starting with their desired answer and backfilling.  Are there others that might provide any satisfying thoughts?

I don't know. I don't think so. I don't listen to any of them on either side, to be honest. All of that stuff is from tradition more than anything else. Those terms, even, those religious terms used in apologetics are just . . . bullshit. Academia, intelligentsia. I don't think there's any real substance there. Nothing practical.

[Data]

It's amazing to me...there are tons of credible authors that write about christianity - but they don't make a dime in the christian market.  It's nothing but straight hacks and con men dominating that demo.

I think that you use the appropriate term, market. Freely you receive so freely give. It's only going to be sold if it's hacks and con men because that is what the market can bear. Like the legacy media or healthcare industry. No one wants to hear the truth. They want sensational bullshit. Look at the scientists who's credibility and even careers were demolished because they weren't in line with the more profitable unscientific nonsense being propagated by the industry. That's the way it goes. Always has.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yup. An evangelical operator can sell more books in a single quarter than karen armstrong has sold all her life...and this has an effect on the kind of christianity present and dominant in the world.

The state of the religious marketplace pretty much guarantees that the most aggressively bad actors will win out. I don't think it's limited to the west, to theistic religion, or even a new phenomena. Local witchdoctors did more business than buddhist monks, too.

[Pat Mustard]

I'm currently reading Frank Turek's infamous, "I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" where he posits the simple idea that yes Christianity does require some faith, but according to his balance the committed atheist requires more.

He also claims "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." for Christ's resurrection.

So far I find it worth my time to read.

No wonder you like it, you've an inordinate attraction to bullshit.

[Pat Mustard]

It's amazing to me...there are tons of credible authors that write about christianity - but they don't make a dime in the christian market.  It's nothing but straight hacks and con men dominating that demo.

I think that you use the appropriate term, market. Freely you receive so freely give. It's only going to be sold if it's hacks and con men because that is what the market can bear. Like the legacy media or healthcare industry. No one wants to hear the truth. They want sensational bullshit. Look at the scientists who's credibility and even careers were demolished because they weren't in line with the more profitable unscientific nonsense being propagated by the industry. That's the way it goes. Always has.

Let me guess, homeopathy?

[Data]

I think that you use the appropriate term, market. Freely you receive so freely give. It's only going to be sold if it's hacks and con men because that is what the market can bear. Like the legacy media or healthcare industry. No one wants to hear the truth. They want sensational bullshit. Look at the scientists who's credibility and even careers were demolished because they weren't in line with the more profitable unscientific nonsense being propagated by the industry. That's the way it goes. Always has.

Let me guess, homeopathy?

No, let me guess, uninformed amateur eugenics and unofficial pharmaceutical representative in the name of "science"?

[Pat Mustard]

Let me guess, homeopathy?

No, let me guess, uninformed amateur eugenics and unofficial pharmaceutical representative in the name of "science"?

Word of advice, an idiot like you shouldn't try to be a bullshit artist. You'll just fail miseably.

Me, I'll stick with the evidence.

[Data]

No, let me guess, uninformed amateur eugenics and unofficial pharmaceutical representative in the name of "science"?

Word of advice, an idiot like you shouldn't try to be a bullshit artist.  You'll just fail miseably.

Me, I'll stick with the evidence.

Alright then, let's put your alleged penchant for evidence to the test, shall we? Why don't you do this idiot bullshit artist a favor and provide me with one single RCT of the efficacy of masks, like the one you so proudly display in your dumbass avatar. Coronavirus are <0.125 microns in size. Masks and respirators filter particles 0.30 to 0.80 microns in size. Huh? 

Yeah, I don't think evidence means shit to you. You're all about groupthink.

[Pat Mustard]

Word of advice, an idiot like you shouldn't try to be a bullshit artist.  You'll just fail miseably.

Me, I'll stick with the evidence.

Alright then, let's put your alleged penchant for evidence to the test, shall we? Why don't you do this idiot bullshit artist a favor and provide me with one single RCT of the efficacy of masks, like the one you so proudly display in your dumbass avatar. Coronavirus are <0.125 microns in size. Masks and respirators filter particles 0.30 to 0.80 microns in size. Huh? 

Yeah, I don't think evidence means shit to you. You're all about groupthink.

Why should I provide evidence of something we're not discussing. Especially when we've got google to do it ajd steer you away from stormfront and related websites.