Federal Reserve Loan/Bailout documentation released

[theVOID]

Surprise surprise... Look at the government using their powers of currency manipulation to save the American people:

"The Fed had fought against disclosing data surrounding its activities during the financial crisis. After President Barack Obama signed his financial reform package into law last July, calling for the nation's central bank to release documents on most of its lending programs, a coalition of the nation's largest financial institutions took the Fed's case to the U.S. Supreme Court in an attempt to keep the records hidden."

"For the first time it revealed the identities of the banks, investment firms, insurance companies, automakers, corporations, and other borrowers it flooded with more than $3 trillion in taxpayer-backed cash."

"Federal Reserve Lent To Gaddafi-Owned Bank, European Firms After Fighting Disclosure For 3 Years "

"At a time when credit markets shunned even the most worthy borrowers, foreign banks, including one partly-owned by Muammar Gaddafi's Libya, fled to the Federal Reserve and borrowed at rock-bottom interest rates, Fed documents released Thursday show."

"Hundreds of billions in toxic asset bailouts of Hedge Funds. Top of the list is Wexford Capital LLC, who’s Chairman, Charles Davidson is a Godman Sachs alumn. Coincidence? I think not.

Hundreds of billions given to banks in other countries, including Libya. Oh, and don’t forget the employee owned hedge funds. It’s so disgusting."

"Records show the Libyan bank borrowed its funds beginning on September 18, 2008 and lasting through at least November 13 of the same year. The daily high point came on three separate occasions in October and November, when the lender tapped the discount window for $600 million. Beginning Oct. 8, those loans were available at a 1.75 percent interest rate. A few weeks later, the rate dropped to 1.25 percent."

http://curryscloud.com/fedrdocs - Download all 132Mb of documents.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31...43400.html
http://dealbreaker.com/2011/03/federal-r...playabook/

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

Ah. This reminds me of the documentary "Capitalism: A Love Story", which I recommend you see at some point because it talks about this very thing (among other points.)
Although the government is far from blameless in this event, the financial institutions have a far greater share of the blame. This goes into everything I've been attempting to say in my discussions with you, void, but don't put this all on the government.
You should know as much as I that blaming the government for this travesty is like suing McDonalds for making (John Doe) obese. It might technically be true that McDonalds may be serving (John Doe) unhealthy food that's way too high in fats and calories, but (John Doe) did choose to eat at McDonalds 4 meals a day for (X time) with little to no exercise.

[theVOID]

Ah. This reminds me of the documentary "Capitalism: A Love Story", which I recommend you see at some point because it talks about this very thing (among other points.)

I have seen it, Michael Moore is a fucking retard. This is NOT an example of capitalism, under that system currency is not taxpayer backed and they cannot just keep printing more and more to prop up their corporate buddies. This is corporatism. Michael more failed to make the distinction too, not surprising seeing he's one of the most biased activist ass-hats on earth.

Although the government is far from blameless in this event, the financial institutions have a far greater share of the blame. This goes into everything I've been attempting to say in my discussions with you, void, but don't put this all on the government.

Don't put the blame on the organization who appointed and authorized these assholes to print as much money as they fucking like to prop up their corporate buddies? What the fuck are you thinking? This goes absolutely against what you have been saying, giving these fucking cunts power over the economy and currency.

If I steal someone's money to give to you are you to blame? No. So why when governments steal taxpayer money to lend out to financial institutions is it their fault? It's a complete double standard.

You should know as much as I that blaming the government for this travesty is like suing McDonalds for making (John Doe) obese. It might technically be true that McDonalds may be serving (John Doe) unhealthy food that's way too high in fats and calories, but (John Doe) did choose to eat at McDonalds 4 meals a day for (X time) with little to no exercise.

Oh, you still think the Fed is independent. No "central bank" is independent, anywhere. It's all a fucking sham.

And shouldn't we be regulating McDonals? after all you are for regulating every other similar scenario. What if John has a food addiction? Is he not a McSlave being exploited by the evil corporates?

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

That's a lot of things I didn't say. All I'm saying is that - they're all terrible. That's really what it comes down to. I just don't pretend that the banks that conned us only did so because we print money instead of mine money.

And shouldn't we be regulating McDonals? after all you are for regulating every other similar scenario. What if John has a food addiction? Is he not a McSlave being exploited by the evil corporates?

To some extent, yes, McDonalds should be regulated. Their food shouldn't poison me any more than food served by anyone else.

As far as the scenario of "John eats too much and sues McDonalds" in terms of government regulation - I would say... if John had a food addiction to McDonalds food... then, no this wouldn't be McDonald's fault if I was the ruling judge. This man has a choice and he chose to eat at McDonalds fully knowing the health risks. (Since McDonalds and many restraunts like it are now required to divulge health information about the food they sell - some even print it if it helps their marketing campaign - like Subway restraunts).
However, I have seen lawsuits like this one result in laws requiring certain organisations (including public and private schools) to offer healthier choices and vegetarian alternatives. Since I'm all about choices, I consider this a positive result even though I still feel that those lawsuits are frequently frivolous and attempts to money-grab from businesses just doing exactly what they say they are doing.

I've been arguing a lot with you for the government, but for the record, I have many issues with the government as much as I have issues with the more mischievious corperations.

I'll give you an example - one for a company and another for a government.
I have a lot of issues with the Microsoft Corperation. It even qualifies as something I particulary dislike - which is that they are essentially a monopoly over the OS market.
Still, for the most part, I do like the company. They sell a fantastic product that they put a lot of effort into making well and competing with the others in the OS market, which they continue to dominate.
I also use a bank that's local to my state called "Lake City Bank." Aside from their bloated and assinine fees they charged me for overcharging my debit card (which *was* my fault, but I take issue with having to pay several hundred dollars in fees for what amounts to an approximate total of 20$ in overcharges.) But they've otherwise been an excellent bank to me. I may even keep working with the bank after moving to Texas. I don't know how it's going to work, but this is what I'm doing I guess.

Aside from the more obvious issues we've already covered about the government that I agree with you about (like the bailouts), I loathe how the government is handling education in my country, the supreme court opened the floodgates for all the "I own you" money from companies that could possibly come thanks to the Citizen's United decision. They've allowed the nation's infrastructure to crumble (roads, bridges, sewers, sanitation, power, etc). Well, I could go further still, but you get the idea.

What I remember most from history, though, is that as bad as the US government has been, the corperations have and continue to get away with murder - whether it's the days before the 40 hour week, 2 week vacation, and minimum wage when people worked for less than they spent in company towns (keeping them in an eternal debt cycle) and they worked for 80 hours a week under deplorable conditions just to feed their family and stay alive. On the other hand, the US did genocide against the Native Americans for most of our early history and put Asian-Americans into internment camps for some years during one or both world wars.
I think there are points to defend with both, but I don't think there is a catch-all solution that will fix everything. I think your version of a perfect society is at least as breakable as mine and for many of the same reasons. It might work. Adrian's anarcho-capitalism might even work - even if it's only temporary depending on how they're implimented and maintained.
No society is perfect and even the best of human societies is just as vulnerable to become the next roman empire (in that they can collapse from corruption and mismanagement.)
The United States may very well be on this path right now. I could see the collapse of my country in my lifetime. On other hand, I may see it become greater than it ever has been in the past.

Where I take issue with your stances is mostly the idea that everything can be fixed without all this pesky economic interferance, as though it's because of government that companies and the weatlhy seek to corrupt them when historically that has never been the case, which I can guarentee you is wrong.

[Minimalist]

After President Barack Obama signed his financial reform package into law last July, calling for the nation's central bank to release documents on most of its lending programs, a coalition of the nation's largest financial institutions took the Fed's case to the U.S. Supreme Court in an attempt to keep the records hidden."

Void you poor misguided lad....THESE are the fuckers that YOU want to turn the country over to. Big Greedy Corporate Cocksuckers....and YOU are their biggest defender.

Do you really think these scumbags are the right ones to be running things?

[theVOID]

Can you stop fucking straw manning me? I do not want these cunts to have power - Government aren't a barrier to that, they are their greatest asset. Individuals should be given back all control possible, over their own lives, health, education and finances.

The Fed are a wing of the government, just like all central banks are a wing of government - No shit the financial institutions want them to continue their taxpayer funded bullshit, they benefit from government control of the people's resources.

[reverendjeremiah]

My view on American politics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

[theVOID]

We need to invent a fucking zombie machine to bring him back.

[TheDarkestOfAngels]

Honestly, I never really knew this George Carlin before recently (thanks to reverendjerimiah and his death some years back).
I clearly need to familiarize myself with this genius further. Perhaps I'll have to mine some videos out of youtube. Thank you, reverend.

By the by, I did download the 128 MB file you put in the first post but I'm not going to have time yet to look over it. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to look over it as best I can and see if my perception on things change at all.

[Ashendant]

Don't put the blame on the organization who appointed and authorized these assholes to print as much money as they fucking like to prop up their corporate buddies? What the fuck are you thinking? This goes absolutely against what you have been saying, giving these fucking cunts power over the economy and currency.

If I steal someone's money to give to you are you to blame? No. So why when governments steal taxpayer money to lend out to financial institutions is it their fault? It's a complete double standard.

You know what happened the last time a president tried to take the power to print money from the federal reserve don't you?

The federal reserve is not a public bank, it's a private bank where the american government and people have little to no power