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Federal Reserve Loan/Bailout documentation released
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 Weren't these founding fathers the same tax evading capitalists?  Killing people has a fantastic way of turning them into problems that never go away. Sometimes assassinations don't end in such... but the masses love to rally around their dead 
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
 (April 1, 2011 at 12:58 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: If they dont regulate the banks, this will happen over and over again. If your Government didn't think it was a fucking brilliant idea for everyone to buy a house and decide to throw a ton of taxpayer resources at it (which it's still paying for now) by giving subsidies, tax breaks, cutting interest rates and fixing and guaranteeing mortgages for people who couldn't afford to pay it, all of which just raises the demand for houses, builds up an entire supply industry, sends speculation wild, causes prices to surge and creates trillions of dollars in fake wealth at the same time - Poor suckers belied the government, Keynesian economists and industries when they said there was no problem, something that Austrian Economists saw a mile back... there wouldn't have been "this". If you want a loans from a bank and you don't have a hope of paying it you back nobody would give you the damn loan - You loose money buying toxic loans, banks don't intend to lose money - But when a government decides that it's going to back these home loans the risks involved change dramatically, a broker no longer has to worry about finding someone to buy the loans he's given based on their risks involved, he just goes to one of those public assets Fanny and Freddy and they buy the loans. Now they're using the exact same principles in the stimulus spending, and you're concerned about the banks? When they have to play with their own capital you don't get this shit, let them sweet talk some government elitist fuckers into giving them a free tap into your money and you're going to see how fucking dangerous Lord Keynes' "economic theory" (elitist trick) can be.
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 (April 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:Unless they don't know why they were killed i don't know... There's a reason when Andrew Jackson asked what was his proudest achievement as a president he said "I killed the Bank"  (April 2, 2011 at 2:36 pm)theVOID Wrote:(April 1, 2011 at 12:58 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: If they dont regulate the banks, this will happen over and over again. ..and they didnt regulate it properly. They turned it into a get rich quick scam. That isnt regulation. Thats rigging the game to throw prices into the extremes so that insiders can by low and sell high, and then get bailout money to top it off. They also changed the bankruptcy laws to where it is EXTREMELY difficult to get 100% forgiveness for people like you and me, but for a corporation all they have to do is bankrupt and change their name (like the merc group "blackwater" did here in Moyock NC). Did I say that politics are just as absurd as the meaning of life stuff? Well I am saying it again. You cannot find a perfect economic system or a perfect political system. I dont think we should give up trying, but it looks bleak for humanity that even those who share the same political viewpoints save one will be at each others throats over that minor difference. I also want to ask you, since you are a Libertarian..and listen closely to my question now: How would this financial meltdown been avoided in a libertarian setting? If the government stayed out of the economy, and it was "free market", then how would that change anything? You think our govt is using Keynesian economics because the masses want it? No. The money handlers want it. With that said if a libertarian govt was in control they would not say anything to the money handlers about what they can and cant do (for the most part). The money handlers would have gotten together and ran their system off of the keynesian system anyways. In other words, they would have paid off politicians (just like they are doing now) to ensure that the BANKS are ensured and the masses take the risks. They would have created monopolies and gotten so entrenched in the millitary that it would be considered "threat to security" to let these institutions fail. in other words, getting the govt out of the situation will not help. Putting the govt in the situation doesnt help. Cartels/Corporations will form and the masses will pay the penalties while the cartels reap the benefits.  RE: Federal Reserve Loan/Bailout documentation released
April 2, 2011 at 4:52 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2011 at 4:53 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:Can you stop fucking straw manning me? I do not want these cunts to have power - Government aren't a barrier to that, they are their greatest asset. Individuals should be given back all control possible, over their own lives, health, education and finances. Cut the shit, Void. This is the reality that we are living. Rich cocksuckers are calling the shots and fucking over everyone in sight and YOU want to eliminate the only power which could potentially hold them in check. The underlined part in your statement is a pipe dream. "Individuals" will be steamrollered by the very people you seek to benefit most but I guess you want to give them the "right" to be steamrollered? Please open your fucking eyes. Your fervor for this market shit is religious in its lack of logic, clear thinking and lack of evidence. WHERE HAS THIS FANTASY OF YOURS EVER BEEN TRIED SUCCESSFULLY? (April 2, 2011 at 4:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Cut the shit, Void. This is the reality that we are living. Rich cocksuckers are calling the shots and fucking over everyone in sight and YOU want to eliminate the only power which could potentially hold them in check. The underlined part in your statement is a pipe dream. "Individuals" will be steamrollered by the very people you seek to benefit most but I guess you want to give them the "right" to be steamrollered? No, the reality is that Government and big business are fucking bum buddies selling you a fucking line and you're welcoming it with open arms wanting more of the same system designed to take your money and give it to private interests. You'd think with your country being regulated more and more over the last 30 years the situation would be getting better, it's not, you surely admit that? The same economic theory sold to you all as "fixing" the problems has made the corporations more powerful with no major liabilities (too big to fail) and a wealth gap that's getting bigger. The people who are going to benefit the most by ending this sham relationship between business and government is the people who are getting fucked over by it. Give them more control over their own lives so private interests and authoritarian egocentric elites don't. Quote:Please open your fucking eyes. Your fervor for this market shit is religious in its lack of logic, clear thinking and lack of evidence. I don't have fervor for this 'market shit', I have one for free trade between people, not having your wealth stolen by governments and shoveled straight into the pockets private interests, the money supply being inflated causing diminished savings and rising prices in the name of making it easier for the banking sector and "growing the economy", it's a fucking sham system, for all it's claims to make life better it's done the fucking opposite. Quote:WHERE HAS THIS FANTASY OF YOURS EVER BEEN TRIED SUCCESSFULLY? Where has yours?
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(April 2, 2011 at 3:03 pm)Ashendant Wrote: Unless they don't know why they were killed I agree, and that is part of why it was a poorly made plan (he tried to impose a radical change of state without sending the people into a frenzy over why). Means that he could simply be eliminated before he took off. Hence: poorly made plan, and it failed as could only be expected. Did Andrew Jackson really kill the bank? Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
Quote:No, the reality is that Government and big business are fucking bum buddies selling you a fucking line and you're welcoming it with open arms wanting more of the same system designed to take your money and give it to private interests. Because fuckheads like you sold this "government is not the solution - government is the problem" line of shit which allowed rich cocksuckers ( you know the type) to undermine the government and let them run their scams to the detriment of everyone else. The middle class is not being wiped out because of the GOVERNMENT. It is being wiped out by your rich heroes and your solution is to gut the government even further and let them run fucking wild. Perhaps you think the feudalism should be brought back to? Do you want to be called a "lord?" It would be in keeping with the virtual religious nature of your particular blind idealism for this free market bullshit. Quote:I don't have fervor for this 'market shit', I have one for free trade between people, not having your wealth stolen by governments Which is exactly why I think you are out of your fucking mind. You have no conception of how this works in the real world. There are deals being made to ruin people and I guess you are fine with that as long as your rich heroes get off scot free. Idealism is dangerous. Quote:Where has yours? I'm glad you asked because Canada and much of Western Europe seem to have come out of this in far better shape than we have. Of course, Canada did not gut their regulatory agencies and let the fucking banks do whatever they wanted. Now...for the umpteenth time...what is YOUR model for this silly fantasy of yours? Right now you are no different than Marx who predicted that the state would with away. He didn't understand human nature ( greed ) any better than you do.  RE: Federal Reserve Loan/Bailout documentation released
April 2, 2011 at 8:01 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2011 at 8:04 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
A coincidence?
Australia has some of the strongest banking regulations in the developed word. Sub prime loans were not permitted here,nor did our any of our other financial institutions buy the bad debts. Australia was the least effected of all developed countries. I find it fascinating that governments everywhere immediately turned to a classic Keynesian response, and bailed out the banks. Under a laissez faire system, they would have all been allowed to fail. A world depression would probably have followed. My position on the role of government is pretty much opposite of that the Libertarian. I reject the cult of individualism,believing the greater good (ultimately survival of the species) is more important than any individual*. This notion seems to me to be the basis of realpolitik, and all human behaviour writ large. As usual,Void and I may need to agree to differ. *the single exception to the rule is of course if I happen to be the individual concerned. 
RE: Federal Reserve Loan/Bailout documentation released
April 2, 2011 at 8:08 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2011 at 8:17 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
Quote:You'd think with your country being regulated more and more over the last 30 years the situation would be getting better Where have you been? Deregulation has been on the agenda since Reagan. We havent been adding more regualtions..we have been removing them. (April 2, 2011 at 6:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Right now you are no different than Marx who predicted that the state would with away. He didn't understand human nature ( greed ) any better than you do.Damn you are good min. I have come to the same conclusion about Marxism and communism in general. It would work but for one small (but MAJOR) problem...GREED. When humans stop being greedy, is when Marxism and communism *MIGHT* work. |
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