Earth's recent climate spiral.

[Leonardo17]

Human life in Northern countries will be fine. And even if I'm wrong developing countries are to blame for climate change since they emit 73% of CO2.

Scientists.

Nope, nope..and nope.  Hoping and believing that things will be fine is one way that you (and we) could prove those alarmists we were talking about right.  I prefer two hands working to thoughts and prayers.

Not only do we have to realize a cyclical economy based on clean energy at some time before the middle of this century. But we will have to deal with the results of the already happened climate change + I believe we will have to find solution like massively sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere before the middle of this century. So Fusion energy + advanced solar cells may allow us to do that. Otherwise: Everything that Greta Thunberg has said so far is true. She isn’t some spoiled child from Sweden. Everything she says in unexaggerated real facts of the world we are living in.

[Leonardo17]

Already went that route - and our friend dmitry made it clear that none of this is actually about global warming, or expected benefits.  It's a desire to fuck the poors in search of an excuse to fuck the poors.  That's the unmalleable aspect of his worldview.

I don’t remember the clear figures but it is the 1% very rich people of the world who are causing more than 50% of climate change.
 
On thing he is right about is that: “We are nice but we are too many”.
 
I think the ideal population of this planet is around 4 billion. A 10 billion planet is simply not possible.
 
See how he is able to tap on such real facts to distort the whole story and even turn it into “coal can still go on”.
 
-       No it can’t. We have to find ways to completely abandon fossil fuels by 2050. Than we can have a chance as a specie. Otherwise we don’t. And these are facts.

[Leonardo17]

I make it more like 21% of CO2 emissions from developing countries 1850-2011.

https://www.cgdev.org/media/who-caused-c...storically

It was explained several times in this thread that future cumulative emissions would overwhelmengly come from developing countries.

-       It can’t. You are right, but this is not possible. Otherwise we are all .ed

[Anomalocaris]

I don't think he's simply wrong I think he's willfully ignorant.

That’s the pandemic of our generation. Not the risk of nuclear apocalypse, Not world wars in which everyone is involved. But facebook-Twitter based belief systems against which we are completely helpless.

That is the universal eternal pandemic that has afflicted humanity since the earliest hint of humanity.

Also, it is not the apparent vector that defines this pandemic.   How the belief system seems to be delivered is incidental.     The contemptible inner urge to grasp any straw to justify feeling no obligation towards one’s fellow men other than as part of a self-deceptive stratagem to avail oneself with a sense of superiority over one’s fellow men will create the virus of this belief system in one’s own blood whatever part any external means of external delivery might superficially seem to play.

[The Architect Of Fate]

We are discussing ethics not logic. 3rd world countries cause most environmental harm and should pay fot it.

Not True

I know right. We are discussing both logic and ethics. And of course,, his solution is nonsense. We should all be working together to solve this problem within what each country can afford.

[Leonardo17]

Hoping and believing

Genetically humans evolved to live in Sub-Saharan Africa not Canada or Scandinavia. It's a scientific fact that these places will become more habitable.

-       As long as there is some place to inhabit.
 
See: İf you mess with nature this way, there is a chance that nature doesn’t want you anymore and decides to go on her path without humans being a part of it. And that’s what “climate alarmists” are trying to avoid

[The Architect Of Fate]

I've already explained that future cumulative CO2 emissions would overwhelmingly come from poor countries since their emissions are growing while US emissions are falling.
 
Russia is a low income developing country. Your source is wrong.

They are the main consumer of their products. China's international trade is responsible for only 13% of their total emissions.

China has largest auto market in the world

1) No. India + China are already making efforts for their own energy transition. But there must be ways for such countries to longer invest in coal energy plants but even more wind and solar instead (+nuclear of course).
 
2) Russia has deindustrialized since 1991 that’s why it’s one of the few countries who are able to meet the pledges made in the 2020 Paris climate summit.
 
3) But the Chinese are mostly poor people. They don’t consume a lot as individuals. (same applies to Indians)
 
4) Ordinary Chinese people are not that rich. There is an emerging high + middle class in China but the great majority of them are poor people working for low wages. + child labor still exists in China.
 
   This doesn’t mean that they are not dangerous. The Chinese Communist Party truly aims to turn all of the west into its economic vassal. But as I said, the cause of their industrialization is mainly cheap labor + cheap costs for companies who are willing to invest in China  

My favorite part of this is him simply saying your source is wrong because he says so...

[Leonardo17]

We don't actually spend much on foreign aid.  An interesting subject on it's own, particularly because the public perception of foreign aid is off by orders of magnitude and it frequently ends up being a factor in our political decisions nonetheless.   When we do break out the checkbook, though, expectations are attached.  If you think the us is arming ukraine out of the goodness of it's heart, I have a bridge to sell you.

Ukraine doesn't give back anything to the US in exchange for aid and countries around the world don't pay a single penny for US protection of international supply chains.

You’re wrong. They are paying in human lives so that democratic countries are able to maintain themselves against authoritarianism. You're very wrong on that. 

[Leonardo17]

🤣

It is also a scientific fact that vertebrates evolved to live in salt water and breathe through gills. 

   You are so stupid and ignorant you actually think little meaningless factoids can overwhelm entire panoply of practical considerations in forming practical policy.

How is a scientific fact that northern countries will benefit from warmer climate meaningless? And not paying $60 trillion for something America didn't cause is a very practical consideration for American taxpayers.

This is all Georgia Melloni stuff. Really. As I said: Use your mind / use your brain. Always

[The Architect Of Fate]

Sahara and other deserts will become green due to warmer climate.

The dessert is growing not greening. And again a freaking Youtube video 

https://www.livescience.com/62168-sahara...e%20study.

https://www.climate-policy-watcher.org/s...ation.html