(January 19, 2023 at 8:23 am)Helios Wrote:

Quote:I live few hundred kilometers north of Moscow and we have freezing temperatures for 5 months a year. I really don't mind warmer climate.

I live in Canada and I do. Because I freaking know I'll be getting a lot more than warmth when the climate shifts erratically. Freezing temperatures for a few months is a boon by contrast.

It’s bigger than that. Ski business in the Alps are diversifying because there is actually not enough snow in the Alps. Can you imagine that? Not enough snow in the Alps?

(January 19, 2023 at 12:52 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There's a strong correlation between co2 and gdp.  Which is to say that in a current use scheme those developing areas with larger contributions to the fund based on co2 would also tend to have a gdp to match, and, at least ostensibly, an economic motivation to participate in any massively funded global program.  It could easily be the case that the contributors get a bigger infrastructure or funding return on their climate mitigation dollar than they pay in.  

It may be useful to point out that it's not that The Solution™ would cost 60t according to economists - it's the problem itself that is costing us as much, at present.  That number is, itself, based on a very specific subset of all emissions.  Arctic ice drilling.  The number of developing countries drilling the arctic ice is...well, let's call it slim.  This is very much the global norths lane.  Which will not, in mere reality, fare well under any climate change scenarios.  That misunderstanding is based on wishful projections of marginal improvement in agricultural productivity - dwarfed by the yawning chasm of global economic destruction.  Simply put - one day in my lifetime the place I'm at will strongly remind me of florida.  I'll have a longer growing season, and I'll be able to plant more tender crops (we're just about there already, to be honest).  That'll be convenient for when I have to grow all of my own food in the dystopian shithole created by our stubborn insistence on fucking this all up.  It'll all be worth it - the flash floods, the 60deg temperature swings, the 60mph winds....provided that some guy in the south pacific had to pay an extra half cent for every hundred dollars to cover for their contribution to that scenario.

Nice comment. That’s why we will need carbon sucking technologies once we have accomplished our energy transition. There will be no way to feed 8 Billion people if we exceed a level between 1,5 and 2 C above pre-industrial levels

(January 20, 2023 at 9:24 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(January 20, 2023 at 4:49 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Iirc the guy identified as russian a few pages ago. Russia is responsible for 5% of current Co2 emissions worldwide. Russia is considered to be an emerging country.

Yes, Russia is guilty of causing climate change. So what?

Russia has de-industrialized a lot since 1991. So they are one of the few countries who will meet their climate pledge. But they are selling oil and gas and are willing to drill the arctic for more oil and gas. And they can’t do that

(January 20, 2023 at 5:23 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:For some reason local lefties are offended by this fairly rational proposal

No one is offended by your irrational proposals.

I think this is Belaqua. I still don’t know what he is trying to do here  

(January 22, 2023 at 7:56 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:

(January 18, 2023 at 6:18 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: China, India and Russia are low income developing countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing...ntry_lists
Developing countries emit 73% of CO2.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57018837
Being poor doesn't justify destruction of the planet. They should bear responsibility for their actions despite their income level

- These links have nothing to do with what you are saying. 

Huh?

(January 22, 2023 at 10:01 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote:

(January 22, 2023 at 7:56 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: - These links have nothing to do with what you are saying. 

Huh?

23 rich, developed countries are responsible for half of all historical CO2 emissions. More than 150 countries are responsible for the other half.
 
Source: 

 
The contribution of developing countries to global emission is 63% and not 76%.

https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-c...-emissions


 
But here is the graph on the BBC website:


About 50 % of Greenhouse emissions belong to China + India + EU + US.
 
Africa, South America and Canada alone isn’t even on the graph of the BBC.

The share of China and India is 34 % while the US + EU is 18%. So you are right on this.

But the US + EU is roughly 1 Billion persons. And India + China is 4 billion persons.

+ You are the main consumer of their products. The majority of people in India don’t even have toilets. All that they have is their clothes. They don’t have cars, LCD TV’s or even smartphones. So for them the main addition of climate change is usually their breath + their decomposing bodies.

The second link is useful. I meant that I didn't see which content you wanted us to see in the first link you gave
 
The other Links are good too. I think I get your point. I ‘m the one who browsed through the topic a little too fast. But to the exception of some elite, Chinese don’t consume a lot either. The reason for the industrialization of China is the low wages. Just like the other developing countries that are seen on the graph of the BBC. So their contribution usually goes to our consummation. They just live in small apartment blocks, are very careful about their heating, use public transportation and above all, The Chinese don’t make a lot of children (they just can’t afford it).
 
So that’s another aspect too.

(January 20, 2023 at 1:02 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Appeal to common sense is a code for appeal to most discreditable part of human nature.    Otherwise one would not need to disguise what exactly one is appealing to.

We are discussing ethics not logic. 3rd world countries cause most environmental harm and should pay fot it.

(January 22, 2023 at 7:45 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:

(January 17, 2023 at 8:38 am)Dmitry1983 Wrote: Poor countries should pay $44 trillions for destruction of our planet

  Poor countries should make fewer Children while industrialized nation are assisting them to make their transition to clean energy sources

Poor countries should have lower fertility rate and American taxpayers don't owe them anything.

(January 24, 2023 at 6:46 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: 23 rich, developed countries are responsible for half of all historical CO2 emissions. More than 150 countries are responsible for the other half.

I've already explained that future cumulative CO2 emissions would overwhelmingly come from poor countries since their emissions are growing while US emissions are falling.
 

Quote:The contribution of developing countries to global emission is 63% and not 76%.

https://www.cgdev.org/media/developing-c...-emissions

Russia is a low income developing country. Your source is wrong.

Quote:+ You are the main consumer of their products.

They are the main consumer of their products. China's international trade is responsible for only 13% of their total emissions.

Quote:They don’t have cars

China has largest auto market in the world