Posts: 7259
Threads: 506
Joined: December 12, 2015
Reputation:
22
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 5:11 pm
(November 1, 2022 at 5:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (November 1, 2022 at 12:00 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Free will means that "it could have been otherwise", hence, we can impute moral responsibility to others based upon their choices, or, so the argument goes.
The scientific evidence is that we "choose" certain actions prior to even be conscious of our "choices", which is not at all "supremely sensible".
That is one definition of free will, libertarian free will, a modern philosophical one. My point only applied to theologies based on Scholastic foundations.
Outside of traditional Roman Catholic (schismatic) societies, can you name a single, living scholastic scholar?
Posts: 11058
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 5:19 pm
Quote:That is one definition of free will, libertarian free will, a modern philosophical one. My point only applied to theologies based on Scholastic foundations.
So laughably outdated concept then..... 
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
![[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0630%2F5310%2F3332%2Fproducts%2FCanada_Flag.jpg%3Fv%3D1646203843)
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 9:46 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2022 at 9:54 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(November 1, 2022 at 5:11 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (November 1, 2022 at 5:09 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: That is one definition of free will, libertarian free will, a modern philosophical one. My point only applied to theologies based on Scholastic foundations.
Outside of traditional Roman Catholic (schismatic) societies, can you name a single, living scholastic scholar?
LOL...you mean like finding an accomplished doctor that didn't go to medical school?
Since RCC is the biggest denomination I would think any post that proports to refute "Christianity" should at least address the points of the major debates within its premier organization. You can find those here: newadvent.org
Personally, I think it is one of those mysteries that is fun to ponder but ultimately unknowable. Nevertheless, I like to entertain the notion kenosis within a presentist framework as a possible solution...but that is a very unorthodox perspective.
<insert profound quote here>
Posts: 7259
Threads: 506
Joined: December 12, 2015
Reputation:
22
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 9:58 pm
(November 1, 2022 at 9:46 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (November 1, 2022 at 5:11 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Outside of traditional Roman Catholic (schismatic) societies, can you name a single, living scholastic scholar?
LOL...you mean like finding an accomplished doctor that didn't go to medical school?
Since RCC is the biggest denomination I would think any post that proports to refute "Christianity" should at least address the points of the major debates within its premier organization. You can find those here: newadvent.org
Personally, I think it is one of those mysteries that is fun to ponder but ultimately unknowable. Nevertheless, I like to entertain the notion kenosis within a presentist framework as a possible solution...but that is a very unorthodox perspective.
Newadvent.org? The home of the Old Catholic Encyclopedia??
Posts: 67196
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 10:03 pm
LOL, "premier organization". You get the feeling god would hope that's not the case.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 11058
Threads: 29
Joined: December 8, 2019
Reputation:
14
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 1, 2022 at 10:09 pm
(This post was last modified: November 1, 2022 at 10:10 pm by The Architect Of Fate.)
Indeed calling the Catholic church the premier organization. I imagine Luther is spinning in his grave at such a claim.
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
Posts: 41
Threads: 3
Joined: November 2, 2022
Reputation:
1
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 3:31 pm by arewethereyet.)
(November 1, 2022 at 9:46 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: LOL...you mean like finding an accomplished doctor that didn't go to medical school?
This reminds me of Eben Alexander the neurosurgeon who wrote a book about life after death.
Administrator Notice
Link removed per 30/30 rule.
Therefore, let us glory, yea, we will glory in the Lord; yes, we will rejoice, for our joy is full; yea, we will praise our God forever. Behold, who can glory too much in the Lord? Yea, who can say too much of his great power, and of his mercy, and of his long-suffering towards to children of men? Behold, I say unto you, I cannot say the smallest part which I feel. 🙏
Posts: 1988
Threads: 93
Joined: October 23, 2022
Reputation:
8
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 3:19 pm
(November 1, 2022 at 12:00 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (November 1, 2022 at 10:23 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: If there can be only one perfect being, in the Scholastic sense, then by necessity all other being would be imperfect and subject to privation of some good. That is not absurd. It is supremely sensible. Also, within the Scholastic tradition, which underpins Catholic dogma, freewill seems to be defined more in terms of an individual's desire and ability to manifest good in their lives when presented with the opportunity and not so much about isolated decisions.
Free will means that "it could have been otherwise", hence, we can impute moral responsibility to others based upon their choices, or, so the argument goes.
The scientific evidence is that we "choose" certain actions prior to even be conscious of our "choices", which is not at all "supremely sensible".
Free will is not a scientific concept. There can only be evidence of what we did choose, never of counterfactual outcomes. Physical laws proceed deterministically, with occasional stochastic interruptions due to quantum effects. In either case, human will, whatever that is, can have no influence.
Posts: 46133
Threads: 538
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 3:55 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 3:57 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(November 2, 2022 at 2:48 pm)HankMoody316 Wrote: (November 1, 2022 at 9:46 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: LOL...you mean like finding an accomplished doctor that didn't go to medical school?
This reminds me of Eben Alexander the neurosurgeon who wrote a book about life after death.
Administrator Notice
Link removed per 30/30 rule.
Yes, Dr. Alexander is exactly the kind of ethical, qualified, honest-as-the-day-is-long sort of doctor I’m going to believe, especially when he’s writing outside of his field.
Quote:Following the release of his 2012 book Proof of Heaven, Esquire magazine reported that Alexander had been terminated or suspended from multiple hospital positions, and had been the subject of several malpractice lawsuits and that he settled five malpractice suits in Virginia within a period of ten years.[4]
(Especially when recommended to me by a Mormon)
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 7259
Threads: 506
Joined: December 12, 2015
Reputation:
22
RE: Free will and the necessary evil
November 2, 2022 at 5:08 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2022 at 5:09 pm by Jehanne.)
How can a neurologist be guilty of malpractice?
P.S. Oops. I thought that he was just a neurologist and not a neurosurgeon, but, I am too lazy to check.
|
