Just When You Thought Arizona Couldn't Get Stupider...

[Zen Badger]

Where exactly did I say you shouldn't have your guns?

It's your country, you can do what you damn well please.
...and yet we're not allowed to defend ourselves on this forum when we do what "we damn well please."

When have you been prevented from defending your position? All we have done is dispute it(which I thought was what a debate was supposed to be about.) Or are we just supposed to agree with everything you say?

After the napalm, cluster bombs, long range artillery attacks, the missiles, the massed rocket attacks and chemical drops their biggest problem would hosing your mangled remains out of their tank tracks....that's actually pretty funny.

The truth often is.

To illustrate a point, this is your home army....
[youtube video]
Really? you're using a silly XBOX commercial to insult us now.

Yes, deal with it.

So when lots of devices whose designed purpose is to kill are held by lots of people whose I.Q can be measured on the fingers of one hand, expect consequences.

Everyone keeps insulting us while saying, "I don't care if you have guns" ... but you KEEP insulting us. Zen, I'll have you know that my IQ and most people I know is reasonably high.[/quote]
Really? since you've managed to completely miss the point of my original post I have my doubts.

I don't care if you have guns, I rather like them to and am seriously thinking of taking up target shooting myself in the near future.
My only point is that if you are going to offer up justifications for gun ownership don't use the "we will repel the foreign invader" because anyone with even the slightest knowledge of modern military technology and methods knows you would get fucking creamed.

---

Where exactly did I say you shouldn't have your guns?

It's your country, you can do what you damn well please.
[color=#0000CD]...and yet we're not allowed to defend ourselves on this forum when we do what "we damn well please."

When have you been prevented from defending your position? All we have done is dispute it(which I thought was what a debate was supposed to be about.) Or are we just supposed to agree with everything you say?

After the napalm, cluster bombs, long range artillery attacks, the missiles, the massed rocket attacks and chemical drops their biggest problem would hosing your mangled remains out of their tank tracks....that's actually pretty funny.

The truth often is.

To illustrate a point, this is your home army....
[youtube video]
Really? you're using a silly XBOX commercial to insult us now.

Yes, deal with it.

So when lots of devices whose designed purpose is to kill are held by lots of people whose I.Q can be measured on the fingers of one hand, expect consequences.
Everyone keeps insulting us while saying, "I don't care if you have guns" ... but you KEEP insulting us. Zen, I'll have you know that my IQ and most people I know is reasonably high.

Really? since you've managed to completely miss the point of my original post I have my doubts.

I don't care if you have guns, I rather like them to and am seriously thinking of taking up target shooting myself in the near future.
My only point is that if you are going to offer up justifications for gun ownership don't use the "we will repel the foreign invader" because anyone with even the slightest knowledge of modern military technology and methods knows you would get fucking creamed.

---

Where exactly did I say you shouldn't have your guns?

It's your country, you can do what you damn well please.
[color=#0000CD]...and yet we're not allowed to defend ourselves on this forum when we do what "we damn well please."

When have you been prevented from defending your position? All we have done is dispute it(which I thought was what a debate was supposed to be about.) Or are we just supposed to agree with everything you say?

After the napalm, cluster bombs, long range artillery attacks, the missiles, the massed rocket attacks and chemical drops their biggest problem would hosing your mangled remains out of their tank tracks....that's actually pretty funny.

The truth often is.

To illustrate a point, this is your home army....
[youtube video]
Really? you're using a silly XBOX commercial to insult us now.

Yes, deal with it.

So when lots of devices whose designed purpose is to kill are held by lots of people whose I.Q can be measured on the fingers of one hand, expect consequences.
[color=#0000CD]Everyone keeps insulting us while saying, "I don't care if you have guns" ... but you KEEP insulting us. Zen, I'll have you know that my IQ and most people I know is reasonably high.

Really? since you've managed to completely miss the point of my original post I have my doubts.

I don't care if you have guns, I rather like them to and am seriously thinking of taking up target shooting myself in the near future.
My only point is that if you are going to offer up justifications for gun ownership don't use the "we will repel the foreign invader" because anyone with even the slightest knowledge of modern military technology and methods knows you would get fucking creamed.

[Ace Otana]

What I mean by that is that there is a very large population of people here (and a good few with guns). I don't mean to suggest that an individual person can resist the combined might of a government... I mean that the people have a viable option to revolt should it come to that.

I would presume most of the police would flip during an actual revolt, and politicians might as well be shot for how much they could accomplish

It is a very hypothetical situation. It's all based on the 'what if' question.
So you think thousands of armed individuals marching up to the White House won't lead to a blood bath? On both sides?
Plus, armed civilians aren't much against a professional army. Guns don't do much to tanks and such. Let's just say, in this hypothetical situation that through lack of thought and wisdom, you lot decided to arm up and march. How long do you think you'd last against the military? Honestly?
Like peasants armed with pitch forks going up against castles with knights in armour inside.
If you yelled charge and ran straight towards professional soldiers, I'd run the other way, climb up a hill and watch the epic fail from there.
You'd be crawling back half dead with me saying "so, how did it go?"

[Minimalist]

To drag this back to Arizona for a moment, Governor Death-Panels today vetoed the "Birther Bill" showing that there is, after all, legislation which is so stupid that even she will not sign it.

[Cinjin]

I don't care if you have guns, I rather like them to and am seriously thinking of taking up target shooting myself in the near future.
My only point is that if you are going to offer up justifications for gun ownership don't use the "we will repel the foreign invader" because anyone with even the slightest knowledge of modern military technology and methods knows you would get fucking creamed.

My point again is that that was only one minor point I made and I already acknowledged that YOU have a valid rebuttal. You're acting as if that was the sole reason I stated for defending our right to bear arms ... and that's just not the case. I never actually said we would be successful repelling any foreign invader, I said we like the idea of being able to defend our home against foreign invaders. Maybe we would get "creamed" ... it's still our right to try. Many Americans would rather die than live in a society that wasn't free.

Maybe "super smart people with really high IQs" like yourself aren't willing to die for your country's way of life ...... well, we are.

Now I already conceded that you did make some kind of a point. Would you like to continue ----

[Violet]

What I mean by that is that there is a very large population of people here (and a good few with guns). I don't mean to suggest that an individual person can resist the combined might of a government... I mean that the people have a viable option to revolt should it come to that.

I would presume most of the police would flip during an actual revolt, and politicians might as well be shot for how much they could accomplish

It is a very hypothetical situation. It's all based on the 'what if' question.
So you think thousands of armed individuals marching up to the White House won't lead to a blood bath?

I think a marching army is a turkey shoot.

Plus, armed civilians aren't much against a professional army.

Chock full of people that joined the army for the cause of country and family? I believe america's army would largely desert to the opposition.

Guns don't do much to tanks and such. Let's just say, in this hypothetical situation that through lack of thought and wisdom, you lot decided to arm up and march. How long do you think you'd last against the military? Honestly?

Some guns do deal a great bit of damage to tanks. If muslims can make improvised explosive devises to seriously damage tanks, surely we can use our completely functional construction explosives (I know several places to get those around here) to similar effect (likely greater).

Sofar as marching (moronic as hell), I deem it quite likely that the american soldiers on a whole do not have the stomach to fire on many of their own people after very long at all. The army's purpose is purportedly to protect these people, and it is failing to do so if it is killing them. Hence, although a death toll of a moronic action might be high, it is likely to cause the professional army to crumble as surely as shooting them.

Now if we're talking send a sea of protesters that couldn't be armed at the white house whilst the active revolt occurs under a rational design... then I entirely agree with sending these people to 'march' on the white house.

Like peasants armed with pitch forks going up against castles with knights in armour inside.

Depends on how many peasants you have vs the knights. Don't pretend it is easy to fight an extended battle in metal armor with a great metal sword/shield. A pitchfork is a deadly stabbing weapon, but it is the hammer and daggers which such armor should fear, as force weapons and maneuverable piercing weapons can easily get by that armor with the far superior speed of the armorless.

However, the flaw with peasants marching upon a castle is that they are literally assaulting a defensive position (likely with layered troops). Far wiser to revolt (sending the knights packing to the castle) and continue doing as always without a castle.

If you yelled charge and ran straight towards professional soldiers, I'd run the other way, climb up a hill and watch the epic fail from there. You'd be crawling back half dead with me saying "so, how did it go?"

Coward. After our victory you would be tracked down and slain for your cowardly selfishness at the expense of your fellows, declared a murderer of your fellows by inaction.

[Minimalist]

Depends on how many peasants you have vs the knights.

Not really. You can't mistake the movies for reality. In the movies trained men-at-arms never seem to know what to do with their weapons while shit-kicking farmers are ninjas with pitchforks.

This is the legacy of Rambo movies. Too many people think the bad guys always miss.

[reverendjeremiah]

If you yelled charge and ran straight towards professional soldiers, I'd run the other way, climb up a hill and watch the epic fail from there.
You'd be crawling back half dead with me saying "so, how did it go?"

Oh yeah, that strawman is doomed to fail. I know for a fact that strawman will get killed for being so stupid. Strawmen usually are very stupid and usually fail in some spectacular way. That strawman sure was stupid.

[Ace Otana]

You are a strange person, Saerules. Remember, very hypothetical situation. Something I don't ever expect to happen...ever.

Depends on how many peasants you have vs the knights. Don't pretend it is easy to fight an extended battle in metal armor with a great metal sword/shield. A pitchfork is a deadly stabbing weapon, but it is the hammer and daggers which such armor should fear, as force weapons and maneuverable piercing weapons can easily get by that armor with the far superior speed of the armorless.

It was a figure of speech, Saerules. Peasants vs Knights, Citizens vs Soldiers.
Also by "standing up to the government", do you mean by like how the Egyptians did with theirs?

Coward. After our victory you would be tracked down and slain for your cowardly selfishness at the expense of your fellows, declared a murderer of your fellows by inaction.

"Nothing personal, Jack. It's just good business" - Pirates of the Caribbean.
You yell "charge!", I'll yell "good luck!".

[Minimalist]

Having a good day ( by accident, doubtlessly) Governor Death Panels has also vetoed the "guns on campus" bill. She called it "poorly written" as opposed to "poorly conceived."

Whatever, the gun nuts will now demand she resign so they can find an even bigger nazi to toe the party line.

[Minimalist]

And speaking of guns in schools.....

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2011041...TI000.html

A kindergartener who brought a loaded gun to his Houston elementary school Tuesday was among three students injured by fragments when it fired after falling from his pocket as he sat down for lunch, officials said.

At least it happened in Texas.