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Why are you (still) a Christian?
#51
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 9, 2023 at 12:50 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(September 5, 2023 at 5:12 am)Belacqua Wrote: It seems to me that in most times and in most places, religion is more about ritual and performance than about assent to propositions. It's something people DO.

I believe what distinguishes "spiritual" from "religious"  is communal participation in worship of the Divine, through practices, such as ritual and prayer, that connect us with other believers through the Divine.

Tell that to the Desert Fathers, (many of them "hermits") and the thousands of Carthusian monks and other cloistered religious (hermits) over the centuries.
They were "united in worship" ... which now has largely been jettisoned, but it was not done always communally.

In the end do you know anything about what they ultimately believed : St. John of the Cross "The Dark Night of the Soul", St. Teresa of Avila ; "The Interior Castle", the English anonymous "The Cloud of the Unknowing", Chinese Tao mysticism, Christian (medieval) contemplative mysticism, agnostic atheism, Bernard of Clairvaux contemplative mysticism ?

They all end up in the same place. "il faut cultiver notre jardin", (as Voltaire summarized).

I think you two have a clue, but not in the end, the next step, beyond your specific POV.

My compliments for remaining here.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#52
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 8:33 pm)Data Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 8:22 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: Theist: "The first thing that existed in the universe was an intelligent, powerful being who created everything else by speaking it into existence."

Atheist: "I don't believe you."

Militant Fundamentalist Atheist: "No, seriously, I don't believe you."

Good call for the militant fundamentalist atheist. The creator of the universe doesn't exist, nor has ever appeared in the universe. He can't.

As far as we know, it took 13.8 billion years for the first talking being to emerge in the universe.  It is most likely that a talking being was not the first thing.
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#53
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 9:30 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 8:33 pm)Data Wrote: Good call for the militant fundamentalist atheist. The creator of the universe doesn't exist, nor has ever appeared in the universe. He can't.

As far as we know, it took 13.8 billion years for the first talking being to emerge in the universe.  It is most likely that a talking being was not the first thing.

You're pretty good at this. Inadvertently? Reluctantly? 

Spirit creatures don't need to talk to communicate, so although the spirit beings created by the spirit being that created the universe, Jehovah God, needn't have talked at all until the 13.8 billion estimated time it apparently took for the first talking person did emerge. Obviously since that person was the first.
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#54
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:11 pm)Data Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 9:30 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: As far as we know, it took 13.8 billion years for the first talking being to emerge in the universe.  It is most likely that a talking being was not the first thing.

You're pretty good at this. Inadvertently? Reluctantly? 

Spirit creatures don't need to talk to communicate, so although the spirit beings created by the spirit being that created the universe, Jehovah God, needn't have talked at all until the 13.8 billion estimated time it apparently took for the first talking person did emerge. Obviously since that person was the first.

No. Humbly, she is not. She is incredibly well-informed. Neither inadvertently nor reluctantly. 
We have not detected, so far, "spirit creatures". We may some day, but right now, no,
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#55
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:11 pm)Data Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 9:30 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: As far as we know, it took 13.8 billion years for the first talking being to emerge in the universe.  It is most likely that a talking being was not the first thing.

You're pretty good at this. Inadvertently? Reluctantly? 

Spirit creatures don't need to talk to communicate, so although the spirit beings created by the spirit being that created the universe, Jehovah God, needn't have talked at all until the 13.8 billion estimated time it apparently took for the first talking person did emerge. Obviously since that person was the first.

According to the description we have, God was a talking person, at the very beginning of the universe.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
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#56
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:27 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 10:11 pm)Data Wrote: You're pretty good at this. Inadvertently? Reluctantly? 

Spirit creatures don't need to talk to communicate, so although the spirit beings created by the spirit being that created the universe, Jehovah God, needn't have talked at all until the 13.8 billion estimated time it apparently took for the first talking person did emerge. Obviously since that person was the first.

According to the description we have, God was a talking person, at the very beginning of the universe.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And you believe that because the Bible says it? That seems foolish to me. What is the Hebrew word translated as "said"?
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#57
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:22 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 10:11 pm)Data Wrote: You're pretty good at this. Inadvertently? Reluctantly? 

Spirit creatures don't need to talk to communicate, so although the spirit beings created by the spirit being that created the universe, Jehovah God, needn't have talked at all until the 13.8 billion estimated time it apparently took for the first talking person did emerge. Obviously since that person was the first.

No. Humbly, she is not. She is incredibly well-informed. Neither inadvertently nor reluctantly. 
We have not detected, so far, "spirit creatures". We may some day, but right now, no,

What about viruses?
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#58
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:34 pm)Data Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 10:27 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: According to the description we have, God was a talking person, at the very beginning of the universe.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And you believe that because the Bible says it? That seems foolish to me. What is the Hebrew word translated as "said"?

Of course I don't believe it.  But at least with the description of god in the Bible I don't have a moving target. I just read it right off the scroll.  I describe myself as anti-theist in relation to the god described in the bible.  If believers have another god I'll take a crack at it too, but they have to write it down so I'm not chasing my tail.
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#59
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:40 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 10:34 pm)Data Wrote: And you believe that because the Bible says it? That seems foolish to me. What is the Hebrew word translated as "said"?

Of course I don't believe it.  But at least with the description of god in the Bible I don't have a moving target. I just read it right off the scroll.  I describe myself as anti-theist in relation to the god described in the bible.  If believers have another god I'll take a crack at it too, but they have to write it down so I'm not chasing my tail.

 (Qal) to say, to answer, to say in one’s heart, to think, to command, to promise, to intend.

The Bible describes a god as anything or anyone mighty or venerated. Examples, Jehovah, Jesus, Satan, Moses, the judges of Israel, angels, Dagon, Tammuz, Baal, Ashtoreth, etc. 

Anti-theist is a good choice. Better than atheist, in my opinion. More accurately descriptive. 
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#60
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 13, 2023 at 10:35 pm)Data Wrote:
(September 13, 2023 at 10:22 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: No. Humbly, she is not. She is incredibly well-informed. Neither inadvertently nor reluctantly. 
We have not detected, so far, "spirit creatures". We may some day, but right now, no,

What about viruses?

Viruses ? Are you fucking kidding me ? 
What about them ? 
They are not even "alive". 
They are parasitic.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
Reply



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