Existence of a soul etc, continued...

[lilphil1989]

This is a continuation of the discussion which developed here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-6232-page-6.html

---

The point is basically that it is still a theory...

Please learn the scientific definition of the word theory.

If there was any "physical" characteristics such a electromagnetic fields, there would be no discussion, yes? I have not suggested that a soul may be physically proven. Can you prove the absence?

How might you prove the existence of a soul outside of physical reality?

Can I prove the absence? Nope. But that's not the point. If you claim something exists and can't offer any evidence that it does, then the default position is not to believe. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Excellent! You prove that even with the latest technologies and despite the fact that experiments are targeted towards very specific outcomes (and not non-directional), there is still no success (Venter still had to rely on existing living material)

What's your point? 500 years ago people couldn't go to the moon, even with their latest technologies.
The fact that we're currently unable to do something does not imply that it is fundamentally impossible.

Yep, it is a belief or rather should I say wish on your part. You suggest that I believe in God because I cannot explain things and hence attribute it to God? No, to the contrary, the fantastic creation, the very finely tuned universe, the dependability of laws of nature etc convinces me on an intellectual level of the existence of God. On a spiritual level, He has changed my life and removed the fear of death altogether.
In oppopsition to this, I see lies associated with "discoveries" that is supposed to discredit the Bible, assumptions and theories (despite knowledge that the "facts" presented are false) presented as the "truth". And you believe in that? It is a decision to disbelieve, it seems to me, irrespective of the facts.

But that's exactly what you're doing! "Man can't build a living organism yet, therefore life must have been given by god". That's exactly the god of the gaps argument.

Can you lay out your arguments for a finely-tuned universe?

What lies and false "facts" are you referring to?

Yes, actually one day apart.

Care to offer some evidence?

[reverendjeremiah]

Souls?

Oh FUCK..here we go again!!

Why is this even a serious discussion?

Once we are done with this discussion, shall we carry the topic on to discuss the sensitive issue of "unicorns and bladder infections: How should unicorns care for their urinary tract?"

[Tearjerker]

The fact that why people tend to take themselves to spiritual levels all the time, beats me...

[reverendjeremiah]

Just a quick question?

Can a soul get diseases?

Wait, I take that back.. I really dont want to know.

[lilphil1989]

Souls?

Oh FUCK..here we go again!!

I know, I know
I was actually more interested in discussing the latter parts of my post: artificial life and the illusion of a finely-tuned universe. But I wanted to address all of his post, and the existence of a soul happened to be the first point. So try not to be put-off too much by the thread title!

---

Can a soul get diseases?

Certainly! One them is called...




Wait for it...





ATHEISM!!!


I though I'd get there before Carn, since he seems the sort to say something of that ilk with a perfectly straight face.

[tackattack]

Should I merge it with our other one Rev? or should we focus on artificial life and tuning? I don't plan on chiming in too much with this one if that's the case.
The thread I'm talking about is here. for those of you who weren't part of that conversation.

[reverendjeremiah]

Should I merge it with our other one Rev? or should we focus on artificial life and tuning? I don't plan on chiming in too much with this one if that's the case.
The thread I'm talking about is here. for those of you who weren't part of that conversation.

I think that would be a GREAT idea..by all means, I will participate in a civil manner.

Of course, my sense of humor will not be dampened

[lilphil1989]

...should we focus on artificial life and tuning?

That's fine by me. If Carnavon or anyone else wants to explain why they think that the universe is finely-tuned, we'll continue that discussion here, and leave the existence, or otherwise, of a soul to the thread you've already started.

[LEDO]

Souls, like the afterlife evolved from dreams. In dreams, people would travel and visit with dead people. They believed part of that dead person was still alive, ie. spirit or soul. They would construct statues of dead people so their soul could occupy them. This lead to Hermes etc. In Hebrew, soul is the same word for breath. Your breath was considered your soul. When you gave up the spirit you gasped ypur last breath. The Jews did not consider the fetus to possess a soul until it started to breath. That is where souls came from.

I have stated the case that souls were made up by people because they did not understand the nature of dreams and breathing.

[Tearjerker]

People make things all the time, they always look to give their existence some level of epic divinity, because they need to be motivated and rewarded if they ever plan to do anything good or right. without some sort of promise and reward I'd like to think this world would crumble and fall apart. at the beginning there were savageness and immorality, in order to force some sense in people, they had to create an illusion. An illusion that its purpose was to convince people to be good and do good. Heaven and Hell added so they punish the wicked and reward the goodness. But there was a problem, people needed some sort of insurance that there is a life after death and while your body dies and turns to shit and dust here back in the world of the living, a concept had to be created to drive people to believe in all that crap, so the Soul was created.

And since people generally tend to be stupid, they did not contribute any thoughts to the matter and fell in line with the rest of the flock.

I just wanna know what their excuse is for this. Let's say soul exist, and when you die it departs from your body, whoever if we consider the body as a vessel that carries your life support, your brain and memories, your personality and many other attributes, when it dies, how can a soul grab all that and take it with it. how would your soul differentiate from other souls when all of them left everything in their each individual and indivisible vessels. How a one soul can be different than the others and more importantly how something that has no form, no dimension, no memory, no individual record of origin can be punished or rewarded?