Atheist Evangelism

[FrustratedFool]

Pluto is a large Keiper Belt object. Incomplete information about the solar system made it possible for people to claim it was a planet.

Proposed names for other such objects when found:

DOC
DOPEY
SNEEZY
SLEEPY
HAPPY
GRUMPY
BASHFUL

Interesting.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I suspect that being wrong about the nature of pluto becomes more and more deleterious the closer you get to the surface of pluto.  Religion otoh is very close to us, always.

The gravity of the situation escapes me.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Pluto is a large Keiper Belt object. Incomplete information about the solar system made it possible for people to claim it was a planet.

Proposed names for other such objects when found:

DOC
DOPEY
SNEEZY
SLEEPY
HAPPY
GRUMPY
BASHFUL

Interesting.

The mistake stemmed from assuming that anything large enough and in orbit around the Sun would be a planet. If those two were the only criteria, sure. But when we separated the sheep from the goats Pluto became the flagship for a more accurately defined set of celestial bodies.

[GrandizerII]

Some modern liberal brands of Christianity, for example.

Also, false information is not exclusive to religion, it can occur in science and secular philosophy also. Secular ideologies can also contain some immoral/unethical statements/implications. What do you mean by impeding progress when we're doing quite well in terms of science and technology, and a lot of religious folks are contributing to the advancements in science and technology?

I can't think of a modern brand of liberal Christianity that doesn't have incoreect or immoral elements.  And their existence tends to lend credence to the worse versions.  Which specific brand were you thinking of?

Doesn't matter. Could be several things. Let's go with universalism, or with some very liberal brand of Christianity that is pro-same sex marriage or pro-trans rights. Doesn't even have to be Christianity. Could be some mystical brand of Islam, or some form of Buddhism or Jainism.

Incorrect beliefs are omnipresent, you no doubt hold to incorrect beliefs. And they don't translate to dangerous or harmful. That's your antitheistic bias letting you think like that.

As for impede progress, think of all the money and education and time and talent wasted on religion that could be spent elsewhere.  Think of the harm caused by the teachings of religion on evolution, gays, marriage, women, contraception, law, theocracy, sacred land and sites, the environment etc.  Think how advanced we would be if all those intelligent priets had been scientists or historians or engineers or poets rather than preachers.  Etc.

How would the world be worse if everyone just lost their religious belief?

If your issue is with particular religions, that's one thing. But if your beef is with religion in principle, that's another thing. Here, you seem to be arguing the former, but the same could be said about particular secular ideologies as well. Watch out for confirmation bias.

Also, religion isn't stopping intelligent priests from being scientists or scholars or engineers or poets if they wanted to. If anything, history appears to show otherwise.

Also, liberal Christianity doesn't imply liberal racism. What a dumb thing to say (or agree with).

[The Grand Nudger]

The same can be said about secular ideologies because they are often no more or less religious than theocratic ones. They are commonly far less superstitious..but superstition does not equal religion.

Liberal christianity literally is liberal racism, tho. Jesus was a racist to his very bones...so the story goes, and the entire selling point of christianity creates seperate classes of human beings. There are those that are saved, and those that are not. We see how that works out in the world.

[FrustratedFool]

So, let's take a universalist Christianity (I was one for some years).

They would still claim the existence of God, the inspiration of the Bible, the need for salvation via the human blood sacrifice of Jesus, possibly the existence of miracles and healings, the goodness of faith, the necessity of the church (and its resourcing with people, time and money which could be spent elsewhere), the falseness or inferiority of other religions, probably the historicity of the Gospels, maybe the historicity of parts of the OT, the sanctity of marriage and monogamy, likely be anti-abortion, may hold to gender compatibilism, may be transphobic, believe in the idea of sin, hold to the efficacy of prayer, may believe in the special role of Jews and Judaism and Israel, may hold to retribution punishment and post-mortem punishment (though not ECT).

Their existence will also lend credence to far less benign versions of Christianity, and by further extension far less benign religions.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like it's christianity, and not religion, that's busted. Give credit where it's due. Religions don't have to be busted, christians put in the time and effort to make sure their religion was busted. They will...apparently....accept nothing else. Even the most milquetoast version of christian belief, specifically engineered as a response to christianity being busted.... is itself still still busted.

[GrandizerII]

So, let's take a universalist Christianity (I was one for some years).  

They would still claim the existence of God, the inspiration of the Bible, the need for salvation via the human blood sacrifice of Jesus, possibly the existence of miracles and healings, the goodness of faith, the necessity of the church (and its resourcing with people, time and money which could be spent elsewhere), the falseness or inferiority of other religions, probably the historicity of the Gospels, maybe the historicity of parts of the OT, the sanctity of marriage and monogamy, likely be anti-abortion, may hold to gender compatibilism, may be transphobic, believe in the idea of sin, hold to the efficacy of prayer, may believe in the special role of Jews and Judaism and Israel, may hold to retribution punishment and post-mortem punishment (though not ECT).

You having a problem with some of these beliefs doesn't mean they must be harmful or dangerous. You have a negative view of religion from the outset (based on prior experience) and so anything connected to religion ends up being a negative for you, even when we're talking about Christian universalism. Personally, I don't care if someone believes God exists. Or if they believe the Bible is divinely inspired. Or that they see value in church.

And transphobia is an issue within secular communities as well. And prejudice and bigotry in general is also a problem that atheists struggle with.

Their existence will also lend credence to far less benign versions of Christianity, and by further extension far less benign religions.

In your eyes. They don't have to. You just see their existence as such.

[FrustratedFool]

If a talented person invests their time becoming a preacher or apologist rather than scientist or poet because of the influence of universalist xtianity, that's a harm.

If someone gives money to the church rather than a better cause, that's a harm.

If fundamentalist xtians draw upon apologetic arguments created by universalists, that's a harm.

Atheists can suck, but atheism is neutral. Religion is always false and immoral and harmful in some way. That's the difference. The world would be better off without religion.

But let's compromise on one idea: the world would be better off with no religion except universalist progressive xtianity. Fair?

[Angrboda]

If a talented person invests their time becoming a preacher or apologist rather than scientist or poet because of the influence of universalist xtianity, that's a harm.

If someone gives money to the church rather than a better cause, that's a harm.

If fundamentalist xtians draw upon apologetic arguments created by universalists, that's a harm.

Atheists can suck, but atheism is neutral.  Religion is always false and immoral and harmful in some way.  That's the difference.  The world would be better off without religion.

But let's compromise on one idea: the world would be better off with no religion except universalist progressive xtianity.  Fair?

What have you got against Taoists? Jains? Wicca?