Atheist Evangelism

[arewethereyet]

I can't be more explicit Angr.  I don't think that any food charity is an actual solution to the problems they purport to solve.  There is ample evidence that they have the opposite effect at scale from local to global...even though I really do wish they worked and spent significant time and resources establishing one and working for one.  In the parlance of motivated nonprofits, I'm a deconvert.  

I, long ago, stopped believing that they were even a local or incendental good that was zeroed out in sum.  The minute you're throwing soup cans you are actively working -not- to solve the problem.  Not working, in a flawed and inefficient way, to solve the problem.

Not in all cases.  I received help off and on for a year...full stop.  The help did not make me dependent for life.

The people you are thinking of, probably need additional assistance.  Or, they have no intention of working to not need help any more.

[The Grand Nudger]

The people I'm thinking of often work in food production and are devout believers and givers to various charitable causes. It does not benefit them or the hungry. It benefits the churches and their employers....when those two things are different, ofc......

I would feed anyone who shows up to my door. I don't even get billions in funding from the us alone to do it - but I do know that this will not and can never be how we deal with that problem. As least not if we ever want to disabuse ourselves of it. I feel like spilling the beans here gives the wrong impression. Go work for a food bank. Donate money to a food bank. Install a walk in cooler for a food bank, that's what they really need. I've been vocal about this on the boards. If we want to use food banks as a solution we need to make them an actual part of a solution. They are not and literally can't be, at present. They're not structured that way, they don't have the equipment to be that, and the models literally do not work.

"but they hand out little cakes" is not a defense of a given religion, it's the preamble to one of the first objections (on record) to that very same religion.

[Angrboda]

It doesn't matter. He won't answer the hypothetical, for Reasons[tm].

[arewethereyet]

I appreciate the help I received. It was needed and they were there when I needed them.

[Ahriman]

The people I'm thinking of often work in food production and are devout believers and givers to various charitable causes.  It does not benefit them or the hungry.  It benefits the churches and their employers....when those two things are different, ofc......

I would feed anyone who shows up to my door.  I don't even get billions in funding from the us alone to do it - but I do know that this will not and can never be how we deal with that problem.  As least not if we ever want to disabuse ourselves of it.  I feel like spilling the beans here gives the wrong impression.  Go work for a food bank.  Donate money to a food bank.  Install a walk in cooler for a food bank, that's what they really need.  I've been vocal about this on the boards.  If we want to use food banks as a solution we need to make them an actual part of a solution.  They are not and literally can't be, at present.  They're not structured that way, they don't have the equipment to be that, and the models literally do not work.

"but they hand out little cakes" is not a defense of a given religion, it's the preamble to one of the first objections (on record) to that very same religion.

I mean, honestly, I did think there was something vaguely shitty about the way my local church food pantry pastor greeted me when I went there. An almost "guilty" greeting.

[The Grand Nudger]

Don't even get me started. I'm elated to hear stories of people who have showed up to food banks and got what they actually needed - but mostly, what people get is canned peas made mostly of salt and sugar and looks of scorn or disdain. Excellent precursor to interviewing for jobs with the same people who volunteer at the food bank...later.

[The Grand Nudger]

I appreciate the help I received.  It was needed and they were there when I needed them.

As do I.  I've been on both ends of this, regardless of that, the reality of the situation is what it is.

[The Grand Nudger]

It doesn't matter.  He won't answer the hypothetical, for Reasons[tm].

Angr, I -have- answered the hypothetical.  Even when it looks, especially from the view of a hungry person, that religious charities and direct food charities are a good thing.  Objectively speaking and by the numbers - they are not. They actually exacerbate hunger and poverty. I do not want it to be this way, I have worked for years in this sector not because I thought it was this way....this is just me, as I said, spilling the beans about organizations that give away beans.

Want to change it? Don't give a food pantry canned goods. Give it cash money to build a walk in. Even the charities themselves are better served by cash infusion. You'll still be a part of the perpetuation of the problem, but you'd at least be closer to doing whatever you think religious food pantries are doing.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Is a good deed done by bad ideological organisation harmful or not?  Like, is a food bank run by Nazis harmful or not?

Is a church run food pantry harmful?
If forced to give only a Y or N response, I'll say Y to make the provocative point.  Although it would be easier to say N
(as I previously did in the post you quoted).

Why?  Because I'm going to take harm here as doing more to hinder progress than not, and cause overall more harm longterm than not.  The continuation of the ideology will create more harm over time than the food pantry will relieve suffering.  I'm also going to take harm here as meaning causing more harm than necessary.  The same people can do the good deed without the religious or Nazi or whatever ideology.

Right, because all Christian organizations are Nazi.

This is a fairly undisguised appeal to emotion.

[The Grand Nudger]

They don't have to be. Some of the shadiest shit ever done has been done by cute old grannies who bake apple pies between fucking people.

Food banks and direct food aid are strongly correlated with continued food insecurity. Discuss.