Does the Quran support Theocracy?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Do you know the meaning of 110 C Fahrenheit in a tropical climate?

There is no such thing as ‘110 C Fahrenheit’.

Boru

[Leonardo17]

Grand Nudger:
 
I want you to look at the images below.
 
This first one is the façade Of the cathedral of St-Lazare in France:


 
This is the day of final judgement. The end of days. The people where all illiterate at the time. So they took the New Testament and made it into pictures so the people could understand at least the very basic stuff:
 
Here is a detailed picture of the West-Side:


 
The angels are bringing the souls to another angel that is weighing the souls. Some medieval cathedrals have huge fat demons eating the souls of the damned.
 
This is the top of a column in the cathedral: Am angel is going to the “Three Magi” in the story of jesus Capar, Melchior and Baltazar to announce them the birth of Christ:
 

 
- Now did I go crazy all of a sudden? – No. The people who did this where not evil. If you ever get to see those Gothic Cathedrals for yourselves you will see that they are all covered with images. The aim here is pedagogical more than artistic beauty. The people were illiterate. Life expectancy was about 30 years. Few had enough to eat for the next week or so.
 
   So they simplified. Broke it down into images. Well into the Renaissance they took stories of creation and made it into comics like stories all over their greatest buildings (they had tapestries full of images to depict so major historical events too).
 
   So they took the story. Over simplified it. Made it into dogmas. And inscribed them into the minds of their listeners.
 
   It was not that different in Islam. Even today, people will pay to learn medieval Arabic and then read the Quran as it was written 1,5 millennia ago. But must people have ritualized the process completely. They will read and read and read thinking that this will magically help them. “Magic Book” remember?
 
So my proposal is that we are 21st century people now. Don’t get me wrong. There are no Da Vinci Code or anything of the sort. But there can be a better approach.
 
I see myself as having a better approach. 

[arewethereyet]

What is your point exactly? Is there one?

I grew up attending mass in a Basilica. Every inch is covered in religious-themed art. Till I was in my teens the mass was in Latin.

So, again, what is your point?

[Leonardo17]

Do you know the meaning of 110 C Fahrenheit in a tropical climate?

There is no such thing as ‘110 C Fahrenheit’.

Boru

Sorry, I meant 104 Degree Fahrenheit (40 Degree in my country)
 
On Reiki:
 
I have a second degree initiation since 2004. I’ve met several masters and practitioners. The entire thing is rather fascinating although I must agree it’s not for sceptics.

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But there are more empirical version of bio energies.
 
There is almost nothing about it in Wikipedia, but I quit be a smoker thanks to something called Bio resonance therapy.
 
These are new techniques in our times. But I must remind you that acupuncture was also considered as being unscientific for the greatest part of the 20th century. I am also a believer in Ayurveda Medicine.
 
Of course all of these have to be taken with a grain of salt. Most of the time these things come with a price (even if you find the right guy). So I’m not too involved in that kind of thing. Maybe I will in the future.
 
I also believe that some ancient societies were far more efficient in working with these principles than us today. According to some Hindu cosmology we are in the beginning of the Dwapara (second) Yuga era. The end of the Dark Age happened in the year 1900 (This is the theory of someone called Sri Yukteswar). So we are still very material and almost 100 % material in our ways of seeing things. Yet we are still using more subtle elements like magnetism, electricity, radio waves etc. for our own benefits. So according to this theory we are slowly moving away from our more primal nature and into more sophisticated aspects of our potential as well.
 
So Cyanide asked me about benefits:
 
- There it is: Sadhguru says the first thing that we have to learn (even before the alphabet) is “Aham Brahmasmi” = I am the Universe.
 
That’s the simple looking stuff that makes all the difference. Think of empathy for instance. If empathy is one you have a normal man. if it’s 0 you have a Narcissist (also described as antagonistic personality). If it’s -1 the man is a sociopath and needs to be separated from the rest of the population.
 
So to make it simple: Think of the Movie “The Last Samurai” (Tom Cruise 2003). I never said that science is anything else but a great thing (The Quran says: “I was I secret Treasure and I wanted to be known”). So God and/or Brahma “Wants to be known”. That’s how I see it. But what about our inner nature. What about all the truth within us. This world we created (this world – not science) is all about how much do you have. How much do you get out of every-thing. How much more profit can I have. How can I use even the GD planets to my own benefit. Some of us have had it with this way of seeing things and placing ourselves at the center of everything. That’s why we have all of these disciplines not to replace science, not to make-up answers when we simply don’t know. But to simply be here now. Like being here in the present moment. Without pondering on the past. Without anticipating the future etc.
 
So I also think that this debate can end here if we want to because there are people who describe this stuff in a far better way than me. But that’s what we do. We learn to look within ourselves to find age old answers to them and we believe the answers are there.
 
More traditional believers may not be there yet. But I think they will get there as well.
 
So the only issue here is harmful behavior. To me: that’s not ok. Even things like whipping yourself in a religious way (some Muslims do that as well), that’s a clear sign that the person is not spiritual.
 
But just like in science, there has to be a critical mass. Things do evolve. We do evolve as well. When there is a critical mass in a group who says “Why do I care if someone is drawing pictures of our prophet? Who’s the idiot who makes that into a huge personal drama?” than the mentalities will evolve. And suddenly, there won’t be anyone coming to your door because they are unable to see that you already have a belief system within your own mind and are perfectly at peace with yourself being just the way you are.

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So as a man in my country has once said: “All of my hope lies in the Youth”.

[The Grand Nudger]

You and I have a different idea of what evil entails. That cathedral was built for the same purpose as a snake oil salesmans cart - with the proceeds of rape and murder on a global scale. You look at that and see a simplified version of..well..who knows really, because you never get around to articulating it - but I see a monument to cruelty and exploitation.

[Ferrocyanide]

Religious artwork on walls?
People do it because they want a record of themselves.
It doesn’t mean that they have a written language.

Some primitive humans drew inside caves, they drew elephants, dear, giraffes, hippopotamus. It gives us an idea of what their lives were like.
The painter probably was thinking “What did my ancestors do? What were they up to? Am I the first who is going to record life on these walls?”

Some cultures built monuments and drawings and leave them outside.
Some cultures placed value in having a building where you go and pray. So, might as well put some decoration on the walls.

Over time, they made them more elaborate. Gigantic churches with a lot of decoration. Muslims did the same thing.
It was for their god so it made sense to spend a lot of time on that and less time on their own homes.
Naturally, they are going to make some objects of god, copper, bronze with a lot of fancy details.
The artists who made such things probably worked for very cheap and basically gave it to the church for free.

And you also get artists who write the holy scripts by hand with a lot of artwork.
Eventually, you get the printing press and they make books with fancy looking covers for their Bible.

1. People always want more. Bigger churches, bigger pyramids. Fancier artwork. Make the god happier and happier.
Judaism and its flavor of religions are transactional religions.

2. Cultures copy each other. It is possible that the pyramids of Egypt inspired some europeans to build excessively big churches and arabs did the same for their Islam.

The aim here is pedagogical more than artistic beauty. The people were illiterate.
 

I don’t think so.

I see myself as having a better approach.
 

OK. What was your approach again?

[Silver]

Evil people can create beautiful art.

[Leonardo17]

That there is something called. “Genuine Spirituality”
 
I am going to go a little imagy again:

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Here is a real Animal rights activists. She doesn’t care what people say about her. Just look how she is approaching and then rescuing the dog. She carefully catches the dog and then takes it to a veterinary. Then she takes care of the dog in an animal shelter until the dog can be adopted by some other animal lovers.




 
She is genuine. That’s what I understand by animal lover and/or animal rights advocate. I know people like that in real life too.
 
Bellow. There is someone who calls himself an “animal lover”. He looks like a grown up but does not have the intelligence of a 12 year old. He is feeding the dogs with inappropriate food. Dogs will eat raw meat when you give it to them because of their wolf instincts. But it’s the worst thing you can give them because of the bacteria and parasites inside raw meat. You need to cook it and separate the bones. Especially chicken bones can break and perforate their digestive systems (and kill them).




 
2) We have a monthly average of 4-5 important level dog attack event in this country. Thanks to Mons like that the dog population the stray dog population in my country has reached the 10's of millions. Greece has a similar population of 4 million. Mainly because of similar idiots who are advocating an ideology of controlling the population through sterilization only (which is obviously not working). 
 
 
So the main idea here is this: If you go to Hong-Kong or some places in India you can purchase a Samsonite suitcase for a very low cost.
(By the way, in some places in Istanbul people will be offering you Ray-Bans, I-phones and or luxury perfumes etc. I don’t think I need to tell your generation that they are all crap. So if you decide to come here for your holidays remember this; and consider getting a shot for rabies – I am serious)
 
So in everything there is genuine and there is crap.
 
There is no scientific way to demonstrate spirituality to an atheist. But there are ways to tell the difference between genuine and non-genuine spirituality. That’s the only think I am trying to explain here.
 

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An ego-base discussion on “your belief vs. my non-belief” will probably only put everybody here to sleep.
 
The Course in Miracles says that “The teachers of God come from all religions and no religion”. So it’s ok for if somebody is from any religion or no religion at all. That’s not the issue here

[Angrboda]

[brewer]

I'd post the popcorn emoji but this thread isn't popcorn worthy.