Education vs. Indoctrination

[Leonardo17]

[The Grand Nudger]

You think that the indoctrinated are less capable of learning "spiritual realities" than you....and in this hypothetical I presume that you believe that you haven't been indoctrinated to believe in these "spiritual realities" in the first place?

[LadyForCamus]

[awty]

Education is teaching a person how to think. Indoctrination has a specific goal in what it wants a person to think/believe.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I detest that phrase "spirit quest". I can deal with spiritual thinking, but "spirit quest" just sounds so goddamned New Agey. The word "quest" also implies that there's a finishing point to it.

[Nay_Sayer]

Education opens doors; indoctrination slams them shut

[Belacqua]

[awty]

[Ahriman]

And I think that an education which is ONLY limited to facts and systems lacks a larger goal, which a good education should point toward. If our education doesn't result in us becoming a better person, I don't see any point in memorizing facts, or adhering to particular approved-of world views. If we are not kinder and more compassionate due to education, I don't really see the point. If we don't learn to avoid causing unnecessary pain, then our education has failed. Perhaps those last things are a part of spirituality; I'm not sure.

Why would education teach people to be more kind and compassionate? And what's wrong with pain?

[Belacqua]

And I think that an education which is ONLY limited to facts and systems lacks a larger goal, which a good education should point toward. If our education doesn't result in us becoming a better person, I don't see any point in memorizing facts, or adhering to particular approved-of world views. If we are not kinder and more compassionate due to education, I don't really see the point. If we don't learn to avoid causing unnecessary pain, then our education has failed. Perhaps those last things are a part of spirituality; I'm not sure.

Why would education teach people to be more kind and compassionate? And what's wrong with pain?

Yes, these are very good questions. Exactly the kind of thing that reveals my own assumptions.  

It's clear that a lot of people disagree with me -- they think that kindness and compassion are not intrinsically good things. A lot of people are willing to switch them on and off, depending on circumstances. 

I really ought to ponder it more, but as a first reaction, I'd just say that creation and discovery, rather than hate, seem to me like intrinsic goods. When we give up kindness and compassion we are likely to instigate vicious circles of attacks which end up taking up our energies and benefiting no one. 

It's possible to challenge and debate in a spirit of kindness, and I think that in the long run the effects are more positive if we do it this way. 

As for pain, I'd say that's intrinsically a bad thing, which we always want to avoid. It is good insofar as it's a warning sign that something is going wrong. But the ability to endure it when necessary is also a sign of strength. 

Remember that in Greek mythology there is a good Eris and a bad Eris -- the goddess of conflict. How we go about this conflict is important. Even if there's no chance of improving the other person's thinking, it is important to me that we engage in a way which shows our own best qualities. 

Do you have any arguments as to why it's better not to be kind?