Shariah: Is it "barbaric"?

[Minimalist]

This was an instance where a cult had illegally obtained weapons and then fiercely resisted when authorities attempted to enforce the law. If they were "imprisoned" (which is a bullshit claim) they were imprisoned by their own doing. And what does "babies coughing up blood" have to do with anything? The mothers could have easily walked out of the compound with their sick babies and received medical attention. The fact that they didn't is because they either chose to remain in the compound or they were forced by their wacko cult leader to stay. Either way, it is their own fault. Could the government have handled this situation better? Maybe so. But you can't compare Waco (a one-time circumstance which was heavily investigated afterwards) with atrocities like "Honor Killings".

Actually, Ru, Waco is an example of what happens when murderous religious cults obtain weapons. Don't pretend that doesn't happen in the Arab world!

[Thor]

But let's not forget why these searches are necessary in the first place.... because MUSLIM TERRORISTS make it so!

Quote of the fucking week good sir!

And it's only Tuesday! Where do I get my certificate?

[Cinjin]

You can't really take any of the devout muslims on this forum seriously when they talk about morally right and wrong ...... I mean common, really?!?

[Rayaan]

A few general remarks in response to some of the earlier comments on this topic (just to put out my thoughts):

1. I do not defend faulty court rulings and just because the court happens to be dealing with matters of Shariah does not mean that what they rule is representative of Islamic teachings. The similarity of such rulings, which are plenty I may add, is to those of secular courts where depending on who has more resources can take the law for a spin. Again, just because a "sharia" court rules on something doesn't always make it the normative ruling in Islamic law.

2. There is no such thing that the shariah is "imposed" on a Western country because the overall jurisdictional power of that country is ultimately in the hands of non-Muslims. Therefore, if there were ever to be shariah courts, it would only be to the extent of their own regulations, and allowing shariah courts to exist in their own jurisdictions is their own prerogative, not Islam's. Furthermore, under the shariah itself, if there are communities that have their own rules and religious beliefs, the shariah automatically allots them a jurisdictional power and legislative powers of their own choosing.

3. The Shariah is social and communal in practice, and the society revolves around the strong base which is the family, and it tries to uphold and strengthen the society with this base in mind. Relationships between males and females at the intimate level is only permitted between the husband and wife, the marriage contract is a legal entity in the form of contractual obligations which are upheld and maintained under the Islamic law. This means that intimate relations between couples who are not married are illegal and are not acceptable by the law. A marriage may have turned into just a pointless piece of paper in the west, but in many eastern nations, it still is what it's supposed to be - a legal contract - and this means that there will indeed be legal repercussions for not abiding by the terms of the contract. Nobody should enter into a contract while not intending to commit to the terms of the agreement.

4. Unlike some of you posted here, the strongest opinion is that there should be no punishment for apostasy. The death penalty was only imposed by the Prophet when apostasy was combined with a treasonous act, meaning that an apostate would betray or violently rebel against the Muslim state, and thereby endangering the safety of the people. There is no report that the Prophet ever ordered a death penalty on someone just for losing his or her faith in Islam. Therefore, everyone is free to express their belief/disbelief as they wish. Apostasy is only punishable by death when the apostates try to cause harm or damage to the citizens of the state.

100+ Notable Islamic Voices on Apostasy; Preserving the Freedom for Faith; Affirmation of Freedom of Expression and Belief in the Quran

5. Yes, men and women do not have equal rights in respect to their married lives (according to shariah), but women are allowed to work, get educated, become teachers, leaders, and do many other things that men are allowed to. The main differences between them are in respect to certain relationship matters. In Islam, equality is a religious and spiritual equality which means that when we do good deeds, whether a male or a female, we are both rewarded equally. This is the essential meaning of equality under the Islamic law.

Additionally, Islam highly emphasizes the importance treating one's wife with respect and kindness: Women in the Quran and Sunnah

[KichigaiNeko]

You really are a good representative of your faith rayaan. Like all the other religions on the planet....there are those who have NOT really read their text, behave badly and then use the "but god told me to do it" get of jail free card. As usual people strive to 'twist the law' to suit themselves, and I have no doubt that the original authors of 'the law' had not envisaged the use it would be put to...as always.."great idea; and THEN you add people and watch it get fucked up."

There have been a number of "pushes" to have 'sharia law' instated here in Aust and Britain mainly by some two bit imam trying to make a name for himself. It is still a primitive custom on par with Hammurabi's code. And should I find myself living in an Islamic dominated country I would respect it and have no illusions that MY non-religious leanings will NOT be tolerated as well as islam is tolerated in my home country.

I just hope that your lady appreciates you.

[Cinjin]

Additionally, Islam highly emphasizes the importance treating one's wife with respect and kindness

sorry Rayaan, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the followers of Islam divvy out to both their own people and those who hold contrary beliefs.

Type in muslim women into Google Images and you will know the BRUTAL atrocities muslim women are experiencing at the hands of Islam. The stonings. The burnings. The list is long and the pictures are appalling. I will never placate any muslim for any reason as long as your religion continues to practice this barbarism.

[Thor]

The Shariah is social and communal in practice, and the society revolves around the strong base which is the family, and it tries to uphold and strengthen the society with this base in mind.

How does killing your daughter for being a rape victim "strengthen the society"?

Relationships between males and females at the intimate level is only permitted between the husband and wife, the marriage contract is a legal entity in the form of contractual obligations which are upheld and maintained under the Islamic law.

Well, it's an incredibly pathetic contract, isn't it? The husband can simply ditch his wife by saying "I divorce you" three times. The wife can do no such thing. Pretty much a one way street, isn't it?

This means that intimate relations between couples who are not married are illegal and are not acceptable by the law. A marriage may have turned into just a pointless piece of paper in the west, but in many eastern nations, it still is what it's supposed to be - a legal contract - and this means that there will indeed be legal repercussions for not abiding by the terms of the contract. Nobody should enter into a contract while not intending to commit to the terms of the agreement.

And how many Muslim women (or, more accurately, young girls) are forced into a marriage they don't want because their father orders it? And we're talking 13 year old girls being forced to marry 60 year old men. How can you possibly say they "entered into a contract"? They didn't! They were forced!

Yes, men and women do not have equal rights in respect to their married lives (according to shariah),

Glad to see you admit it.

but women are allowed to work, get educated, become teachers, leaders, and do many other things that men are allowed to.

Why aren't they allowed to do everything a man can do?

The main differences between them are in respect to certain relationship matters. In Islam, equality is a religious and spiritual equality which means that when we do good deeds, whether a male or a female, we are both rewarded equally.

You mean both sexes are "rewarded equally" by your fictitious deity after death? Gee... that's helpful.

[reverendjeremiah]

WOW Rayaan. That sure is a huge list of BULLSHIT you posted. Islam sucks rhinoceros dick. I would prefer to live around American christians than mid east Islamics ANY DAY. Islam represents a REAL threat to freedom. To be very honest with you, when the first Bush was in office and the mess happened over in Kuwait and Iraq, I was just graduating from highschool, and I SERIOUSLYconsidered joining the army because of it. I decided to go to college instead. Islam is backwards as hell and I will oppose it at every turn.

Yes it is, and if anyone tries to enforce it on me at any point while I'm alive, I'll either kill them or die in a pile of spent brass and empty magazines.

I bumped up your Reputation for that one.

[ruhollah]

Additionally, Islam highly emphasizes the importance treating one's wife with respect and kindness

sorry Rayaan, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the followers of Islam divvy out to both their own people and those who hold contrary beliefs.

Type in muslim women into Google Images and you will know the BRUTAL atrocities muslim women are experiencing at the hands of Islam. The stonings. The burnings. The list is long and the pictures are appalling. I will never placate any muslim for any reason as long as your religion continues to practice this barbarism.

funny, you submitted a similar response to my posts

are you the forum bot on this site?

As I mentioned earlier, anyone can pick out the most negative evidence to prove a point. What you choose to do is to select incidents in poverty-stricken nations where the people are living under extreme tyranny.

Why don't you take a look at the republic of Congo with secular laws, a caravan of 200 men travel to nearby cities and rape any human they find:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8650112.stm


Similarly, there is absolutely nothing you can say that can ever justify the punishments that the children and women of Waco, Texas felt in 1993.

---

You can't really take any of the devout muslims on this forum seriously when they talk about morally right and wrong ...... I mean common, really?!?

Once again, stoning is a rare occurrence........ in fact such a punishment is not really mentioned in the Quran.

When it occurs, it is usually in nations/cultures that are living under tyranny. These people are suppressed and take it out on one another. This kind of stuff happens in any nation/culture that is suffering economically and socially.

[KichigaiNeko]

Sorry rayaan...for us (the outsiders) your countries ARE living in tyranny. It is why we are rather vehement regarding the Qur'an.

I am thinking that you don't know much about Waco or the threat it posed (and neither do I) so I would really refrain from comment if I were you.