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Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 12:16 am
A member on this forum recently said: Those who saw the resurrected Jesus, saw prophecy fulfilled.
Which is, in best case, debatable because you can go back and say that the Bible said anything you want.
Look at it this way: if Jesus's resurrection was clearly prophesized in the Bible long time before Jesus was born, then, when he was in the grave, you would expect hundreds of people waiting outside for the famous prophecy to be fulfilled, but no.
Even the gospels claim that Jesus' resurrection was discovered by a woman (or group of women) who happened to be there.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 12:18 am
Besides, a missing body doesn't equate to resurrection.
"What a little moonlight can do." ~ Billie Holiday
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 12:45 am
(This post was last modified: November 25, 2025 at 12:47 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Whoever said that was bullshitting you. Even magic book tells us that the early christian community didn't get the meaning of any of this until after the event, then returning to their scriptures ex post facto - this would be ot - to make sense of how nothing seemed to line up with respect to their proto-christian beliefs about jesus. They arrive pretty quickly on the it being prophecy fulfilled in a different way...which a careful reader might realize is a very funny way of saying "failed prophecy".
That, whatever it was, was what the imaginary people who saw a mythical godman rise from the dead in a work of fiction would have seen and understood themselves to be seeing. What you're witnessing there is a contemporary nutter imagining that the proto-christians were seeing what they now believe to have been prophecy fulfilled. This was emphatically not the case at the time. They wigged out about this to the point of killing each other, nearly strangling christianity in the crib in the process.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 2:50 am
(November 25, 2025 at 12:16 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Look at it this way: if Jesus's resurrection was clearly prophesized in the Bible long time before Jesus was born, then, when he was in the grave, you would expect hundreds of people waiting outside for the famous prophecy to be fulfilled, but no.
The unspoken premise is that they know this one dude who got crucified alongside the common criminals was known to be Jebus.
If the folks didn't know, why would they show up at all? And if they did know that, why weren't there thousands? How would they know where to go at all?
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 5:32 am
If MAGA had been a thing in 1st Century Palestine, the claim would be that the Pharisees stole Jesus body to use in their Masonic rituals and replaced the savior with a clone, thanks to alien technology.
Boru
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 11:06 am
(November 25, 2025 at 12:45 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What you're witnessing there is a contemporary nutter imagining that the proto-christians were seeing what they now believe to have been prophecy fulfilled. This was emphatically not the case at the time. They wigged out about this to the point of killing each other, nearly strangling christianity in the crib in the process.
Hi there. I would be the “contemporary nutter”. Vaguely channelling N.T.Wright...
C1 Israel was expecting God to keep His promises: return to Israel, sort out that whole death thing, inaugurate His Kingdom, bring forgiveness for His people.
For sure, the Early Christians went back to the OT to make sense of what had happened, we agree on that. Why they would want to do this if nothing had happened is an important question.
No-one had connected the suffering servant with the defeat of God’s enemies. The bits about three days were vague at best. There were things about bodily resurrection, but no-one agreed on what they meant. And so on.
However after Easter, they could see exactly how God had done what He said He would in the OT. Those who saw the resurrected Jesus, saw prophecy fulfilled.
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 11:26 am
(November 25, 2025 at 11:06 am)Vicki Q Wrote: (November 25, 2025 at 12:45 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: What you're witnessing there is a contemporary nutter imagining that the proto-christians were seeing what they now believe to have been prophecy fulfilled. This was emphatically not the case at the time. They wigged out about this to the point of killing each other, nearly strangling christianity in the crib in the process.
Hi there. I would be the “contemporary nutter”. Vaguely channelling N.T.Wright...
C1 Israel was expecting God to keep His promises: return to Israel, sort out that whole death thing, inaugurate His Kingdom, bring forgiveness for His people.
For sure, the Early Christians went back to the OT to make sense of what had happened, we agree on that. Why they would want to do this if nothing had happened is an important question.
No-one had connected the suffering servant with the defeat of God’s enemies. The bits about three days were vague at best. There were things about bodily resurrection, but no-one agreed on what they meant. And so on.
However after Easter, they could see exactly how God had done what He said He would in the OT. Those who saw the resurrected Jesus, saw prophecy fulfilled.
And yet - other than being born in Bethlehem - Jesus fulfilled absolutely none of the OT prophecies about the Messiah. This is roughly akin to betting on every horse in a race and then claiming you knew which one would win.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 12:29 pm
It's pretty clear from the book of Isaiah's context that the 'suffering servant' referred to was Israel.
"But hear, now, O Jacob My servant, Israel whom I have chosen! . . . Remember these things, O Jacob For you, O Israel, are My servant: I fashioned you, you are My servant— O Israel, never forget Me."
“You are my servant, O Israel,Through whom I will show my splendor. "
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 25, 2025 at 4:30 pm
(This post was last modified: November 25, 2025 at 4:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 25, 2025 at 11:06 am)Vicki Q Wrote: Why they would want to do this if nothing had happened is an important question.
I'm willing to put good money on you being as unconvinced by other religious movements syncretic moments as I am of yours.
OFC, the question is answered in the asking. They did it because their prophecies failed, necessitating a new understanding.
Quote:Those who saw the resurrected Jesus, saw prophecy fulfilled.
No one saw any such thing....not that it matters, since Those Who Saw The Resurrected Jesus™ in the christian cinematic universe did not see prophecy fulfilled, they made up a new one after the alleged fact.
All of this is just being wrong about a piece of literature. The nutter shit, is hanging the truth of your religious beliefs on the notion that magic book was a crystal ball, instead of...say...."exaggerations". But hey, don't take my word for it. Get thee to a jew. They're still around, they'll tell you all about how wrong christians got their book, and their god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Jesus' resurrection was prophesized?
November 26, 2025 at 9:23 am
Firstly, the earliest church were Jews.
Secondly, far from remotely defensive about prophetic fulfilment, the Jewish apostles were putting it right out there front and centre.
Whether it’s Peter (Acts 2) Philip working the Suffering Servant (Acts 8), Paul “proving it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and rise from the dead”, the Christmas story in Luke, Jesus referencing Daniel...Christians have been very clear that Jesus was what happens when prophecy turns out to be true.
Thirdly, God made promises to Abraham; they were now fulfilled. God had promised to bless humanity through Abraham’s descendants. That had happened. God had promised to end the rule of death. That had now happened. God promised to return to Israel. That had happened. And so on.
Those who saw the resurrected Jesus, saw prophecy fulfilled.
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