Challenge to Evolution Deniers

[Doubting Thomas]

Good luck getting any conspiracy theorist to give actual details about how the conspiracy is being maintained. A good conspiracy theorist "just knows" that their theory is true, they don't have to look into the minute details of how it could possibly happen or not.

For example, how exactly is the Illuminati, a small group which only existed a few hundred years ago and then died out, running the entire world bringing about a one-world government headed by the Antichrist? It must be no small feat aligning Jews with Muslims in order to attempt to bring about martial law in the United States.

But as has been pointed out, a good Christian evolution denier will just claim that all scientists are atheists who hate God and are trying to disprove his existence by establishing a crackpot theory that we somehow came from monkeys when there are still monkeys instead of being created for a singular purpose by the all-powerful creator of the entire universe.

[thesummerqueen]

A lot of them DO look into minute details - they're very good at pattern recognition. The problem is when the details simply aren't there and they accept it anyway saying they KNOW something's there and the information's just hidden as part of the conspiracy.

Just because of slurs I've dealt with in the past, I can't fathom how anyone assumes there's a secret Jewish organization ruling the world. This is absolutely hysterical to me.

As for the evolution deniers, it's hard for them to shout conspiracy when (correct me if I'm wrong) not a single paper has been put forth to be peer reviewed by the scientific community at large. Amongst other creationists sure, but none of their so-called compelling evidence has been provided to try and convince others.

And before Min says it, I don't just mean their precious book.

[Gawdzilla]

"Well, yes, a good conspiracy is, on the face of it, unprovable." Mel Gibson, "Conspiracy Theory". (Best opening sequence in the genre.)

[DeistPaladin]

To be clear to anyone new, I in no way am an evolution denier.

Understood. I often play Christian's advocate myself.

Ahh, but you see: that would require me to have evidence. Which was my contention (that I would only "defend" this position for so long as evidence is not required).

There is of course the effect that evolution has on education. Perhaps it is that this was a precedent to the rest of their plan... Act One, so to speak.

LOL. Fair enough.

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As for the evolution deniers, it's hard for them to shout conspiracy when (correct me if I'm wrong) not a single paper has been put forth to be peer reviewed by the scientific community at large. Amongst other creationists sure, but none of their so-called compelling evidence has been provided to try and convince others.

What got me to post this thread was thinking about Ben Stein's train wreck of a movie "Expelled".

This movie, although it tanked at the box office, seemed to be a hit among hardcore creationists. Many skeptic YouTubers have debunked the smaller assertions of the movie but I looked at the big picture and saw a movie that was contending the existence of a massive, international conspiracy to suppress all the "evidence" for ID.

The first thought I had coming out of the movie was "My God, the scope of such a conspiracy is mind boggling in and of itself."

According to the movie's contentions, entire careers in the academic and journalistic fields (yes, they control the journalists as well) were being ruined simply because they had the temerity to question evolution. For over 100 years now, this conspiracy by what I assume is some Darwinist junta, has crossed all national borders to control the academic community and the journalistic profession (arguably the toughest segments of our society to control, since skepticism and peer review are ingrained in their culture).

I think it's no exaggeration that this conspiracy theory makes the "9/11-Truther" conspiracy theory look positively mundane.

The Truthers at least offer some motivation behind the conspiracy (money, power, fear and control). No motive has ever been offered for the "Darwinist conspiracy" as far as I know. Even Ben Stein's movie never offered anything.

[theVOID]

Good luck getting any conspiracy theorist to give actual details about how the conspiracy is being maintained. A good conspiracy theorist "just knows" that their theory is true, they don't have to look into the minute details of how it could possibly happen or not.

For example, how exactly is the Illuminati, a small group which only existed a few hundred years ago and then died out, running the entire world bringing about a one-world government headed by the Antichrist? It must be no small feat aligning Jews with Muslims in order to attempt to bring about martial law in the United States.

But as has been pointed out, a good Christian evolution denier will just claim that all scientists are atheists who hate God and are trying to disprove his existence by establishing a crackpot theory that we somehow came from monkeys when there are still monkeys instead of being created for a singular purpose by the all-powerful creator of the entire universe.

I don't doubt that most of the people who they regard to be involved in this "conspiracy" are in fact detrimental to their or societal health, at least to an extent, but I see that more as a measure of the incompetence of people being more 'obvious' once they have the scope of these global elites (who do exist) and that incompetence manifests in a systematic way because of the hierarchies of power, as such these people don't recognize the incompetence it's self but see the systematic or structured harm and assume intent.

The rest is a post-hoc rationalization largely in the form of an attempt to make sense of the facts of failure in the context of the apparent systematic intent.

[thesummerqueen]

DP -

I always think of the creationist conspiracy nuts to be rather like the historical conspiracy nuts. You know - the ones that claim "Big History" (I can't believe I just said that) suppresses things like ancient alien theory and the like.

I'm not sure about the mind-boggling size of the conspiracy to hold it all back, but they do have one thing in common: they assume that it would just "blow our worldview" if we realized that this "fringe evidence" was actually true.

For some reason, none of them realize that science and history embraces new information all the time, but only the strong evidence sticks and the rest falls away.

Again, I think it's a case of people being unable to realize that not every person in the world thinks like they do. They want THEIR view to be on top, so they assume if no one accepts it then someone must be holding them down...that's probably what they would do if they were already on top, yeah?

What I don't get is why a faith-based idea so desperately needs science to back it up. Could it be they're scared of what their own closets hide?

[Minimalist]

suppresses things like ancient alien theory and the like.

Hmmm.... what I've noticed is that behind every conspiracy theory is some conniving asshole who has written a book that he wants to sell.

[thesummerqueen]

that too.

[Doubting Thomas]

A lot of them DO look into minute details - they're very good at pattern recognition. The problem is when the details simply aren't there and they accept it anyway saying they KNOW something's there and the information's just hidden as part of the conspiracy.

The problem with most CT's is that they piece together small details whether they fit or not, and then make them fit into their theory. For example, we all know that cell phone usage has been on the rise the past 10 or 15 years. More antenna towers are needed in different locations, especially urban ones. Many people dislike looking at what they consider ugly cell phone towers, therefore antenna companies began making cell phone towers to look like trees, etc. Conspiracy theorists see the intent to hide cell phone towers as a sinister part of the conspiracy, in that if someone is trying to hide something, it must be for a sinister reason. Therefore, to them the towers are not for cell phone usage, but to beam mind control signals to control the population.

But I think that if you were to actually try to get CT's to think about the impossible logistics of actually trying to conduct a worldwide conspiracy, it would cause the same cognitive dissonance that religious people have when they think about the impossibilities in their religion.

And you're absolutely right. If there's no hard evidence to support their theory, then that's just proof that "they" are suppressing the truth.

What I find hilarious is anyone who has an anti-government conspiracy website on the internet. It's like the government is so powerful they can pull off 9/11 but they can't keep Joe Nutjob from blogging about it for years afterward.

Just because of slurs I've dealt with in the past, I can't fathom how anyone assumes there's a secret Jewish organization ruling the world. This is absolutely hysterical to me.

You mean the Jewish media and bankers aren't controlling the world? This belief, though is one reason that a lot of conspiracy theorists, at least those who believe in all the NWO crap, tend to be racist and Holocaust deniers as well.

[thesummerqueen]

Let me tell you something about Jews. There are a couple minor subdivisions, but for the most part they are separated into three main sects: orthodox/ultraorthodox, conservative, and reform.

The Orthodox and the Chasidic are so busy following rabbinical laws that call for certain prayers for just about everything, and HOW to follow those laws, that they don't have time to rule anything.

The Reform, on the other end of the spectrum, don't give a shit. They're just there for the bagels. (Guess where I ended up before calling it quits?)

The Conservatives now...there's a sticky issue. You see, I was raised Conservative. They get to pick and choose what they want to do. They technically have the time. They have the brains (after all, they push their kids like only a Jewish mother can when it comes to school). Some of them even have the money smarts.

But I say those fuckers are too busy trying to outdo each other in weddings and b'nai mitzvahs to have much time to conquer the world. The banking and media jobs are just a means to an end. When you're doing all you can to get your daughter's SECOND bat mitzvah ceremony to go off without a hitch (first one being on the east coast, second one in AZ) and you have to coordinate stage coaches to bring her and her friends to the temple that's decorated with a western theme (I'm not making this up), pissing on the rest of the world becomes secondary.