Ai music

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Boru

[Belacqua]

In fairness, that depends: how are we using it? The recent work Peter Jackson's done with the Beatles' old work proved it actually does have a place in music, even if it's just in the way of creating stems from old recordings and making half-century-old recordings sound new. But using it as a substitute for actual creative work is a nonstarter. Unless, of course, the AI just wrote some really ridiculous songs.

I listened to some of the songs by DV8 that you posted a little earlier. To my completely inexpert ear they sound about as good as a lot of stuff that's popular. That is, not very good, but designed to appeal to a certain kind of consumer. 

There's one by DV8 called "Fuck Being Polite," and it expresses exactly the kind of sentiment we hear on this forum all the time. So not every note is written from the "mind body and soul" of a human, but the idea it expresses is exactly the kind of thing that humans often express. A human used this AI tool to express a sentiment that a lot of people feel. If we were tricked into thinking a human wrote every note of it, I suspect we'd just say it's a not-very-creative normal kind of song. Someone who thinks it's cool to be impolite would put it on the jukebox and feel rebellious. (Do they still have jukeboxes?)

Naturally, the purists who believe that any human creation is a pure expression of heartfelt creativity will object to this. But how much of what gets sold these days is anywhere near that? A tool is a tool, right? What matters is what a person does with the tool.

[Belacqua]

The visual arts have a serious advantage over music and movies when it comes to AI.

Any first-rate painter uses his material in a way which brings out the possibilities of the physical material. Van Eyck or Giovanni Bellini layered the oil paint in translucent layers that gives the original work a depth and richness that is completely lost in any reproduction. A computer screen can't come anywhere near what actual oil paint can do, and so far AI pictures are only on the screen.

Rembrandt's impasto is a large part of the beauty in his paintings, and this is also unreproducible. The silvery touch of a Durer engraving or the fluffy mulberry paper of a Ukiyo-e print are an integral part of their beauty, and their beauty is their meaning. So until they invent some kind of super computer printer that can do all those things (and no human alive can get anywhere near the skill of van Eyck's use of glazes) AI visual art will always fall far short.

[Fake Messiah]

How can you tell the difference between ai music and none ai music before someone tells you?

So far I can tell the difference. AI songs use lyrics and melody but without much logic and even fewer emotions, so they sound hollow.

Like what does this describe or even mean?

Jawbones in a line
Teeth grin through the salt and rust
Hands break through the crust
Like the earth forgot to keep them shut
Your fingers drum the dash
You say
“Drive or say goodbye”
Their eyes are little broken mirrors
Throwing back the sky

It's nonsense.

Also, they seem to be missing a story arc. Usually in a song you feel like there is a beginning, a middle, and an end, while AI songs just begin and go on and on and then end. They feign with melody some sort of beginning and end, but you cannot sense it in a song. They might as well insert a few more verses or last forever or end.

Even the songs with a few words in them that get repeated over and over, e.g., "Around The World" by Daft Punk, have some sort of arc where you feel the song going from the beginning to the end. Although some songs made by humans go on flat and they sound tedious, eg. "Don't Worry, Be Happy" which is the song I am reminded of the most when I listen to your AI song.

[Angrboda]

[Rev. Rye]

Just found this YouTube Short and think it's relevant:






I don't have a lot of time because a therapy session is coming shortly, but I think this might be a clue to the fundamental difference between Human-written music and AI-made music. When something unexpected happens in human music, it's because somebody decided "Hmm, I wonder what would happen if I do this instead of the usual thing?" In AI music, this happens because the AI made a mistake and failed to understand how it usually goes because its understanding of how to imitate humanity is just above "assume that a bedroom that probably came from Versailles with lights on the floors is Standard Operating Procedure for humans."

[Thumpalumpacus]

Formula applies in all genres of art. Where AI is fail is that it digests formula without thinking to break it.

[Rev. Rye]

Formula applies in all genres of art. Where AI is fail is that it digests formula without thinking to break it.

It’s not even that. If it breaks formula, it’s because it doesn’t even understand the subtleties of how the formula’s supposed to work.

Case in point: the bedroom scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey





2001 being 2001, the novel is a lot clearer than the film, naturally, but even in the film, it’s clearly something aliens made for Dave because they thought it’d be more familiar and more comfortable for him, but the subtle things are very off. And it’s not because they thought these changes would be an interesting touch on an old classic. It’s because they’re building something they don’t understand.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Formula applies in all genres of art. Where AI is fail is that it digests formula without thinking to break it.

It’s not even that. If it breaks formula, it’s because it doesn’t even understand the subtleties of how the formula’s supposed to work.

Case in point: the bedroom scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey





2001 being 2001, the novel is a lot clearer than the film, naturally, but even in the film, it’s clearly something aliens made for Dave because they thought it’d be more familiar and more comfortable for him, but the subtle things are very off. And it’s not because they thought these changes would be an interesting touch on an old classic. It’s because they’re building something they don’t understand.

Themes and tropes happen in human art because they touch upon emotions that humans the world over feel -- joy, anxiety, fear, fearlessness, uncertainty, ennui, and so on. And yes, those feelings do indeed get bottled and sold by human exponents using a slow, analog form of AI, by many so-called artists -- Thomas Kinkade, Bay City Rollers, Nora Ephron, Kenny G. But the thing for me is that while humans can shake, rattle, and roll the algorithm, is AI able to break the chains? Humans can. Humans do. But AI searches middle-of-the-road stuff and winds up finding roadkill.

We all use building-blocks of language and feeling, but we still can build our own edifices.

[Fake Messiah]

How can you tell the difference between ai music and none ai music before someone tells you? Do you mean once you know it's ai the concept alone is enough to put you off?

Actually, maybe I was turned off by the concept. I was listening to the song again and it made more sense to me. It is using the desert and its symbolism to describe some sort of morbid, suicidal relationship. She's singing about how they are weighing in killing themselves as the bones and the bloody reflection of the moon in the desert sand are calling them.