Is God always "just"?

[Gawdzilla]

He just ain't there because he just doesn't exist, so it just doesn't matter. So yes, he's "just".

[Watson]

1) there is no reason why ominpotence is trumped by being maximally good (it is just assumed), in other words if god were free and all powerful why couldn't he do evil (biblically it seems more consistent to assume he can indeed commit evil)

Neither omnipotence nor being maximally good are trumped by the other. No one said God can't commit evil. He created it, He is capable of anything. That is the key difference between man and God.

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

God chooses good over bad every time. Humans don't always choose good over bad.

2) if god is perfectly free and also only ever able to choose to do good, why could he not bestow that on his creation/s. We apparently are free but can choose to do evil and god lets us! (at least if created in his image why don't we possess his characteristics?)

We possess the knowledge of good and evil, just like God Himself. We are absolutely free to choose good over evil, any time, just the same as God...but we don't. We fall short of His grace.

3) If god is compelled only ever to do good, why praise him for it?, he has no choice (like an unthinking machine)

I don't claim to know God's reasoning for choosing good, I just accept and am grateful for it. I thank Him for it. I trust that His choices are higher than mine and that He makes them out of love and compassion. He is not forced in any way.

4) Imagine a perfectly evil god who allows people to freely choose to do good? Most likely we could bootstrap such a diety into existence with as much logical consistency as the Christian concept and it would expalin just as much about our world (nowt!). So why would that be less valid tha the Christian concept?

I can't tell you that God isn't evil because I don't know, but from what I have seen and experienced, there is a God and He is working towards our benefit.

The most likely explanation is that there is no such god with these properties

You just committed the same fallacy you agreed with me has been made before. This is a non-sequitur argument with no basis for connecting the two arguments.

[reverendjeremiah]

Those Bible verses indicate that God created both good and evil, and I see no problem with that. The Bible verses you've provided say nothing on whether God is just; they merely reassert the concept that God created everything, including evil. Your argument is a non-sequiter; how does having created evil alongside good degrade God's justice at all? It doesn't. There is a balance between good and evil, both of which God created. And isn't the sign of justice...

Oh yeah. A balance.

God created Evil? Then how can god be just and good or even benevolent? How can you not see how god creating both good and evil degrade his justice?

I suugest you read the Epicurean argument of evil

A god who creates evil is malevolent and does not deserve worship, respect, or praise. No, he only deserves revolt!

[Watson]

God created Evil? Then how can god be just and good or even benevolent? How can you not see how god creating both good and evil degrade his justice?

Because I trust that God has our best interest at heart and has a good reason for doing so.

[reverendjeremiah]

God created Evil? Then how can god be just and good or even benevolent? How can you not see how god creating both good and evil degrade his justice?

Because I trust that God has our best interest at heart and has a good reason for doing so.

A god who creates a Hell full of fire, pain, crying, screaming and torture for ever and ever amen for not worshipping him, or for ANY reason, is NOT someone who has our best interests in mind. The prick obviously gets his rocks off on watching people suffer for ever and ever amen.

Yeah, thats who you worship..the Lord and creator of Hell fire and eternal damnation.

Good thing your God is nothing more than a fictional character, and a poorly invented one at that.

[Watson]

That's cool. You go on thinking of it that way and I'll go on thinking of it my way.

[Faith No More]

Because I trust that God has our best interest at heart and has a good reason for doing so.

A common theist mistake.

[Watson]

Oh really?

[Captain Scarlet]

Neither omnipotence nor being maximally good are trumped by the other. No one said God can't commit evil. He created it, He is capable of anything. That is the key difference between man and God.
Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
God chooses good over bad every time. Humans don't always choose good over bad.

This is a bare assertion fallacy. You have no basis to assert a god always chooses good.

It is interesting that you concede god is capable of committing evil. This is not my understanding of xtian theism, but it does mean he is not perfectly free to act. The xtian god is set to be perfectly free, and therefore this god as described does not exist.

If god is choosing, this implies that god takes into account events as they unfold, computes a response and then reacts. If this is true god also cannot be immutable (unchanging), another charactersitic of the xtian god. Surely if god exists he is indeed eternal and unchanging and has already decided before time itself existed?

We possess the knowledge of good and evil, just like God Himself. We are absolutely free to choose good over evil, any time, just the same as God...but we don't. We fall short of His grace.

Its not the point I made, but I'll assume I made it badly. The point here is that god could have given us both freedom and only allowed us to choose to do good things, if you also beleive god is both free to act and is also maximally good. As you do not believe god is free to act, then this point is no longer relevant.

I don't claim to know God's reasoning for choosing good, I just accept and Im grateful for it. I thank Him for it. I trust that His choices are higher than mine and that He makes them out of love and compassion. He is not forced in any way.

This is the bare assertion again. You do not know god chooses good, you beleive it for an unspecified reason (presumabley based on personal experience?). As pointed out there is no need to thank a god who has or can only ever choose to do good. Its like thanking a riveting machine for riveting; what choice is there for either god or the riveting machine.

I can't tell you that God isn't evil because I don't know, but from what I have seen and experienced, there is a God and He is working towards our benefit.

Personal experience is not a strong argument for the existence of a god, and specifically a particular god. But we agree that god could be evil and the chances could be as high as 50% (assuming he exists).

You just committed the same fallacy you agreed with me has been made before. This is a non-sequitur argument with no basis for connecting the two arguments.

I disagree there is a strong argument that at least the xtian god does not exist based on the above charcterstics. The argument would go something like this:

1. if the xtian god exists he is perfectly free to act, maximally good and omnipotent
2. any perfectly free being choose to perform an evil act
3. a maxmially good being can only ever choose/decide/elect to do good acts
4. an ominpotent being can do anything which isn't intrinsically logically impossible
5. thus the xtian god is either incapable of performing evil acts and is not free or is not omnipotent or is not maximally good
4. thus the xtian god does not exist
[/quote]

[fr0d0]

It's all very nice you twisting and re-inventing your God Scarlet. And I love the way you don't want to find out for yourself what defines the Xtian God, but would rather keep plugging away at the misconceptions you concoct. RTFM. Jerk.