Concerned about my country

[Justtristo]

This is a bit of a rant.
Australia is one of the least religiously observant and secular nations on Earth. We are a country where Atheists outnumber practicing Christians and especially Evangelicals. However our politicians seem more content on trying to pander to a small minority who are practicing Christians. I believe the relaxed nature of our electorate is probably to blame.

For example in this country unlike America the following occurs;

In most states private schools and home schooling are allowed to teaching Creationism as a legitimate scientific theory.
The state governments allow chaplains in the public school system and evangelists posing as "scripture teachers".
No state or territory has come around to recognizing same sex marriages and even our self professed "Atheist" Prime Minister is opposed to that happening (at least in public).
Only Victoria and the ACT have so far legal abortion on demand, with restrictions of various sorts in other states.

[reverendjeremiah]

Sounds like you guys need to get your shit in gear before the fundies fund themselves with your money (like our "faith based initiatives") so that they exist forever.

If they can, they will leach off of the system forever

[theVOID]

In most states private schools and home schooling are allowed to teaching Creationism as a legitimate scientific theory.

They're private, they can teach what they like. Only institutions receiving state funding should be obligated to comply with the state's secular mandate - If parents want to teach their children nonsense they can, they can also send them to someone else to be taught nonsense.

The state governments allow chaplains in the public school system and evangelists posing as "scripture teachers".

That's fucked up. We had "Religious Education" when I was at primary school, it should have been called "Fundie dogma" - I was the first person to get forcibly removed from the classes from writing "God is a fag" all over my books. I'd never gotten along with the Principle until that point, but after that we got along alright, seeing as I had to go sit in his office once a week, he couldn't hide the smile on his face when he learned what happened.

No state or territory has come around to recognizing same sex marriages and even our self professed "Atheist" Prime Minister is opposed to that happening (at least in public).
Only Victoria and the ACT have so far legal abortion on demand, with restrictions of various sorts in other states.

Move to NZ We have the condescending "civil unions" and abortions up until the the fetus can survive independently.

[Justtristo]

They're private, they can teach what they like. Only institutions receiving state funding should be obligated to comply with the state's secular mandate - If parents want to teach their children nonsense they can, they can also send them to someone else to be taught nonsense.

Actually our 'private' schools receive substantial state subsides to keep running, so the state I believe has a stake here.

[Minimalist]

and abortions up until the the fetus can survive independently.

Very interesting idea you have given me, Void....( always fucking dangerous!).

AT what age can human children survive "independently?"

Judging by the number living in mommy and daddy's basements it seems the age is about 37.

[theVOID]

and abortions up until the the fetus can survive independently.

Very interesting idea you have given me, Void....( always fucking dangerous!).

AT what age can human children survive "independently?"

Judging by the number living in mommy and daddy's basements it seems the age is about 37.

They mean 'at what point could the fetus survive without being in the mother's womb', as in, if we were to remove the baby from the womb could it survive on life support? If the answer is yes then the fetus is deemed to be an independent being and cannot be terminated.

[Minimalist]

I know what they mean but if the mother dies in childbirth the baby is not going to survive for long. A newborn might be able to breathe on its own but it sure as hell cannot survive for long without the parent's constant attention. The dependency period for humans is longer than for other animals.

[theVOID]

I know what they mean but if the mother dies in childbirth the baby is not going to survive for long. A newborn might be able to breathe on its own but it sure as hell cannot survive for long without the parent's constant attention. The dependency period for humans is longer than for other animals.

Not necessarily, we can find a great many cases of babies surviving their mothers death in pregnancy.

That's why the care of medical professionals is considered. As for the case when the mother could die, they would first attempt to save the child through induced pregnancy or Cesarian and if that couldn't done the termination goes ahead, Plus they would rather adopt these kids or put them with family rather than kill a baby who could survive without the mother, even if it means life support.

[Minimalist]

You are missing the point, Void ( and we aren't even talking about economics!). The dependency period for human children is far greater than other mammals. Without constant attention we'd die. This is not something that ends at birth.

A woman who gives birth is making a long-term commitment to keeping that baby alive...and in some cases the father even hangs around.