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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 6:50 am
G-C,
Lay off min he rsponded logically, and you just got frustrated and threw up an ad hominem.
Min,
Here's my understanding of both,
The exodus verse is talking about Gen. 2 where God did indeed rest on the seventh day. That's a common held Christian understanding of Creation for the literalist. So let's treat it as a literal chronology of creation, even as none were there to record it. God rested on the seventh day and he wants us to remember it and make it Holy and we call it the Sabbath.
The Isaiah verse is one man explaining to another about the nature of God. He practiced and believed in the Sabbath, so he knew of it and it's origins. If you take the entirety of the Isaiah passage you'll see he's encouraging people to persevere through God's strength.
Jesus states (in John 5) that God is constantly at work "even today" is the closest you'll find to God never tiring that I can find. The Sabbath is for man by God, not the other way around. It's a reflection of what was and is to come (col. 2)in the rest of final judgement. Hebrews 4 talks a lot and actually quotes God as saying we will never enter his rest. It's the conclusion of a work.
God did rest, and we remember that rest through the sabbath. We will all rest one day when we die, and all will rest finally after judgement in hell or heaven.
That's my understanding
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 7:20 am
Surely the sabbath of the bible refers to saturday (hence sabado in Spanish). Can any xtians explain why and when it was suddenly changed to Sunday?
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 8:13 am
It morte likely comes from Shabbat/Shaboos (rest) unfortunately based on a lunar calender (4 days and a sabbath I believe) or Shabbatu (pagan Sabbath) based on the babylonian calender which were probably combined knowing catholic tradition and it's love of incorperation of pagan bays.
Sabbath can also be used weekly, yearly or once every 7 years.
Typical Sabbath (Shabbat) was biblicall from Friday night to Sat night. Some Christians do celebrate that (seventh day adventists ,etc.). Those who celebrate it on Sunday usually refer to it as "the Lord's day". The Catholic Church started the "tradition" of Sunday sabbath, with no Biblical doctrine. The reformation is when the idea of Christ being born on the First day of the week got interposed with the Sabbath. The Christian that observes Sunday sabbath, is almost always a reformist, and cvelebrating the Lord's birth, rather than the OT tradition of remembering the day of rest. I as a Christian who celebrates on Sunday, can remember the Lord's day of rest and what it symbolizes in scripture and to me on what day I like as I don't adhere to the written mossaic law, or use it to condemn myself or others. I celebrate the Lord's birth and the coming of the judgement (prophetic day of rest for God's creation) as well as remember the story of creation on Sunday, because it's both convenient (We worship in a messianic temple on Sunday, they have saturday Shabbat) and appropriate to my understanding of scripture and it's aplication to me.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 8:28 am
Doesn't it say somewhere in the bible to 'remember the sabbath and keep it holy'. That would therefore refer to a Saturday by biblical tradition. So if the change to sunday occurred during the reformation isn't that an arbitrary decision by the catholic church.
We all know what went on during the reformation, viz the Spanish Inquisition, so would the real reason be to change the 'sabbath' to sunday be one of the ways to ascertain somebody's jewishness as we know what happened to many innocent victims who were persecuted for celebrating the 'sabbath' on saturdays.
So it could be that the change occurred on someone's whim and that when the bible refers to the 'sabbath' xtians should by biblical standards celebrate saturdays.
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 8:38 am
Yes that particular verse you're referencing would apply to Saturday worship as understood in the Talmud.
Yes it was an arbitrary change by the Catholic Church.
The reasoning you describe is likely as to identifying Jews.
Yes and I explained my reasons why I celebrate on Sunday not Saturday. I feel it is in the Spirit of the Law written in the OT. Besides without a lunar calender even a sabbath purist isn't celebrating on the same day Jesus did, they're just celebrating at the end of their calender's week.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 11:51 am
I have had to live with Bible problems for most of my life. I see the contradictions and errors from place to place all throughout the Bible. My faith is not based on error, it is based on the simple single message that is throughout the Bible. There is a God who loves you and you can make contact with him. This is my personal experience and that is it. I did not find God through intellect anyway. The whole concept of a loving God is so simple that people of intellect alone will never want to see anything else. There is the stumblingblock for the atheist. For you, to take a chance on love is an impossible thing and can never be logical or provable, that is until you experience a change of heart for yourself. That forces you to take the book that you threw away and examine it again for the true things which are still there. Try this site for some different ways of seeing things
http:/members7.boardhost.com/BibleWhys/msg/1303525079.html
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 12:07 pm
I don't disagree with your standing in this post RDK, except if you're saying love can never be logical or provable. It is testable because it's experienced and can be the logical conclusion many times.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@ Cinjin Cane you seem to like poking at Frodo, prove him wrong if you can. I gave you an example and so did tackattack and you have ignored both.WHY?
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm
(May 11, 2011 at 11:51 am)RDK Wrote: I did not find God through intellect
Well there's your problem!
Why, for the MOST important question of all questions, do people suddenly disregard logic and intellect?
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RE: Book of Contradictions: A Challenge
May 11, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Tacky, you can spin it however you like.
One verse implies that god was so tired he needed to rest. The other claims that he never tires.
Both were inserted into the Big Book Of Holy Fables.
They contradict one another. Which was the point of the OP.
Period.
Remember what I said about "exegesis."
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