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RE: Nihilism
May 18, 2011 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: May 18, 2011 at 2:55 pm by Violet.)
(May 18, 2011 at 2:30 pm)tesseract7d Wrote: Nihilism assumes that everything is subjective. I don't necessarily accept this assumption, but if I thought everything was subjective, I would choose a world view that's a little bit more cheerful than nihilism. But, whatever, to each his own. It neither breaks my arm nor picks my pocket.
Not entirely accurate, though it is a point of subjectivism. 'Nothing holds inherent meaning' is not the same as 'there is no objective state'. And there is an objective state... but there is no practical use for identifying this (like if an ant saw a hill, TV, fire, alien, queen ant, very large ant, refrigerator, pony, pornography magazine, and palm tree at once in the same 'spot', not to mention the 5D nonsense).
(May 18, 2011 at 2:40 pm)Nimzo Wrote: (May 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: And yet it has worth to me and meaning to me, therefore it is neither worthless or meaningless (As it possess both worth and meaning). That is a non-sequitur. Just because nihilism is valuable and has purpose to you, does not mean that it actually has value or purpose.
"Actually"? And precisely what is 'actual'?
It is necessarily true that if a hill is green it is green. It is not green to the colorblind, it is not green to those that can't see green, it is not green to anything without eyes, it is not green to the person wearing orange sunglasses... the hill is also grey, red/blue, not there, and orange tinted. Don't put a non-sequiter title on the tautological... it makes you look really silly 
Quote:Quote:And if it did have no meaning, then what precisely would you be on about?
I am referring to existential meaning, not semantic meaning (i.e. propositional content).
You cannot relate any meaning without use of some form of language (spoken or not)... nor can you describe it to yourself without a chemical language in your brain and a memory of some form alongside. Meaning is necessarily semantic (all of it). You can't talk about that which has no meaning, as first you would have had to give it meaning.
Quote:Quote:And worth/value is individual or compromised by a group of individuals...
That is just equivalent to "nihilism is true", since nihilism just is the view that all notions of value and purpose are at most intersubjective.
Then nihilism is true, if you consider the statement of worth/value to be true 
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RE: Nihilism
May 18, 2011 at 3:25 pm
(May 18, 2011 at 2:34 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Napoleon666 Wrote:I realise it was a pretty dumb statement, twas made in haste. Nevertheless I just mean I agree with what it is on a basic level. Life is pointless, the universe seems pointless etc.
And yet, that isn't how I understand the basic level of nihilism at all. Life, the universe, everything has not one but many points (1 if solipsistic garbage)... a point does not have to be objective/inherent for a point to there be 
ARGH! This is boggling my brain to be honest. I thought the general gist of nihilism was that life had no point, no meaning? If that's not the case then what is your understanding of it?
Quote:What is the grand scheme of things? And does this apply only to the lawful? And who was the schemer?
Ahhh, someone's being clever 
But if we really want to get into the nitty gritty, then I would class the 'grand scheme of things' as simply the universe as a whole. I guess it would only apply to the laws of the universe because we only understand things within those parameters. In my opinion trying to come up with theories based on things outside the laws of the universe is impossible, because it is uncomprehendable as to what might be outside the laws of the universe.
And the schemer? WHY GOD OFCOURSE! lol jk, he don't exist
Quote:Nimzo Wrote:Thought I'd chip in with the rather obvious quip that Nihilism is a worthless and meaningless crock of shite.
And yet it has worth to me and meaning to me, therefore it is neither worthless or meaningless (As it possess both worth and meaning). And if it did have no meaning, then what precisely would you be on about? And worth/value is individual or compromised by a group of individuals... and I find that all the cool groups believe nihilism to at least be worth an occasional joke
I was agreeing up until, "and I find that all the cool groups believe nihilism to at least be worth an occasional joke". WHATS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN! 
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RE: Nihilism
May 18, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Napoleon Wrote:ARGH! This is boggling my brain to be honest. I thought the general gist of nihilism was that life had no point, no meaning? If that's not the case then what is your understanding of it?
Not no point, no meaning... but no 'inherent' point, no 'objective' meaning.
Quote:Ahhh, someone's being clever
But if we really want to get into the nitty gritty, then I would class the 'grand scheme of things' as simply the universe as a whole. I guess it would only apply to the laws of the universe because we only understand things within those parameters. In my opinion trying to come up with theories based on things outside the laws of the universe is impossible, because it is uncomprehendable as to what might be outside the laws of the universe.
And the schemer? WHY GOD OFCOURSE! lol jk, he don't exist
The laws of the universe are intersubjective at best, the neutrinos ignore some of these entirely, tachyon particles do some sort of trippy stuff with time, and nobody even knows if gravitons are responsible for gravity or not!  (please don't kill me, actual physicists... this is just me poking fun at random things)
We've even changes some of those Ol' laws... examples being Newton's and Einstein's laws.
Quote:I was agreeing up until, "and I find that all the cool groups believe nihilism to at least be worth an occasional joke". WHATS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN!
It is 'supposed' to mean that even jokes have worth, and anyone cool at least gives it that much value Keep in mind that I also joke about blood, gore, and tigers ripping apart iguanas in cages and eating their livers 
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RE: Nihilism
May 18, 2011 at 7:43 pm
(May 18, 2011 at 10:19 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: Man i'm rambling
That and both of us are not coming off as well as we want.. sometimes it takes so many words and I just dont want to type them...of course I believe we are just biological and chemical...
LMFAO...do you have another 50 hours to type out a discussion on this that would take us one hour face to face?
I have ZERO bad feelings for Nihilism. Absurdism is related (somewhat) to nihilism... it just differs on the approach to a void and cold universe.
Nihilism = The universe is cold and cruel...meh, what difference does it make?
Absurdism = The universe is cold and cruel... at least my beer will stay cold.
I also do not view nihilism as being negative ALL the time, in fact I can point out some good qualities in it as well, but I just dont have the time to type them.
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm
(May 18, 2011 at 7:43 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: (May 18, 2011 at 10:19 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: Man i'm rambling
That and both of us are not coming off as well as we want.. sometimes it takes so many words and I just dont want to type them...of course I believe we are just biological and chemical...
LMFAO...do you have another 50 hours to type out a discussion on this that would take us one hour face to face?
I have ZERO bad feelings for Nihilism. Absurdism is related (somewhat) to nihilism... it just differs on the approach to a void and cold universe.
Nihilism = The universe is cold and cruel...meh, what difference does it make?
Absurdism = The universe is cold and cruel... at least my beer will stay cold.
I also do not view nihilism as being negative ALL the time, in fact I can point out some good qualities in it as well, but I just dont have the time to type them.
Lol you're absolutely right, a discussion like this is difficult because it covers so many aspects. I guess it is more a conversation for face to face.
I will just say that basically I can't find a problem with nihilism, and I don't disagree with any of it I have seen.
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Napoleon666 Wrote:Lol you're absolutely right, a discussion like this is difficult because it covers so many aspects. I guess it is more a conversation for face to face.
Heh, I am more sporadic 'face to face' and much less well constructed. I need subtitles in movies and games to retain conversations, and for all purposes prefer text conversations. Well, most... I'll make an exception for sexual 'conversations' 
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 4:06 pm
(May 19, 2011 at 3:17 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Heh, I am more sporadic 'face to face' and much less well constructed. I need subtitles in movies and games to retain conversations, and for all purposes prefer text conversations. Well, most... I'll make an exception for sexual 'conversations'
Aerzia you really are strange!
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: May 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm by theVOID.)
(May 17, 2011 at 1:44 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Nothing really matters
Value is relative. Nothing 'ultimately' matters, as there is no ultimate valuer, but subjective values are real.
(May 17, 2011 at 7:32 pm)Rayaan Wrote: As a theist, I believe that there's a purpose to our existence which is to acknowledge the greatness of our Creator.
So, you've acknowledged his greatness, now what?
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 4:26 pm
(May 19, 2011 at 4:15 pm)theVOID Wrote: Value is relative. Nothing 'ultimately' matters, as there is no ultimate valuer, but subjective values are real.
Very true.
Would you say that this statement contradicts nihilism? or not?
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RE: Nihilism
May 19, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Nihilism as defined as: "the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated." is plainly false, values have their bases in our desires and we can communicate our desires and subsequently our values to others.
It contradicts some forms of Nihilism, the ones that state value is illusory, some however acknowledge subjective value and then precede in ignoring it - I see it ultimately as a futile all-or-nothing philosophy.
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