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Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
#21
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
True there doesn't necessarily need to be an affect to amplify. I imply there is with my bias, and you imply there isn't from your bias. You consider your position the null position, but I consider my experiences rational and valid and consider them the justified position.

As far as your assumptions about the credibility. What is your opinion of the particular study I used in this particular case and it's source? Is it's reputation strong enough for you?

That's my problem with a lot of athesitic arguments (I'm sure they have plenty for me) that it's not enough evidence, then any evidence will do, oh but then the evidence isn't objective enough, unbiased enough... oh it is.. then it hasn't been peer reviewed enough or ran through enough times. For the claim of an entity existing outside the universe I understand that it requires extraordinary evidence, but I can never find the line.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

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#22
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
(June 18, 2011 at 2:03 am)tackattack Wrote: You consider your position the null position, but I consider my experiences rational and valid and consider them the justified position.

Are you claiming personal experience of psychic abilities?

(June 18, 2011 at 2:03 am)tackattack Wrote: As far as your assumptions about the credibility. What is your opinion of the particular study I used in this particular case and it's source? Is it's reputation strong enough for you?

I gave my opinion of the paper a few posts back. As for the journal, it's a social pyschology journal so the subject matter is not even relevant. It seems the only reason it was published here is that the author was comparing the outcome of an ESP experiment with personality tests (which PAID seem to be particularly taken with). Another thing which rings a few alarm bells is that the paper has 4 citations, all of which are by the author.

Quote:That's my problem with a lot of athesitic arguments (I'm sure they have plenty for me) that it's not enough evidence, then any evidence will do, oh but then the evidence isn't objective enough, unbiased enough... oh it is.. then it hasn't been peer reviewed enough or ran through enough times. For the claim of an entity existing outside the universe I understand that it requires extraordinary evidence, but I can never find the line.

This has nothing to do with atheism, or the claim of an entity outside the universe (if that even means anything).
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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#23
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
Maybe I missed it somewhere in here, but didn't Harvard "settle" this silly debacle a few years back?
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#24
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
Phil- No I'm not claiming any personal experience with anything. It was a reference to you stating they were only publishing positive results. They might very well be doing that, but I don't see how you would know that. I understand your wariness for the reasons cited and I agree it gives me pause. However, according to that study plus others I'm sure I could google easily enough, there is positive results on ESP studies. There is "evidence" supporting ESP, but without anyone drawing a line clearly and and defnining what they would accept it's impossible for us both to get past our bias enough to justify a claim either way.

Epim- Please refer me to what you're speaking of because I don't consider it settled in the slightest and would love some new input.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#25
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
ESP is like God. No true solid evidence against or for it. We can only make a rational assumption...
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#26
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
Tack, here's the run-down I remember seeing:

http://www.science20.com/news_releases/i...the_debate
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#27
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
@Epimethean- In that study they tried to determine whether telepathically, clairvoyantly, and precognitively originated in the brain and even then couldn't confirm a null hypothesis. That isn't the important proposition or relative to this discussion. They don't address how someone could have knowledge of outside information when their brain is "turned off", which at it's very base postulates that the brain isn't the only originating source of experience. My opinion is they took that direction in the wrong direction from the start and picked the 3 most insubstantial Extra senses to test. NDE experiments are much closer to the mark in finding evidence of experience outside the brain.

@HiZ- guess that depends on your definition of true solid evidence.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#28
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
I read The Afterlife Experiments on my father's urging after the death of my mother. It came across as hokum. This review pretty much nails that down. As for NDE, I have a strong suspicion they follow similar suit.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/how_not_to...xperiments
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#29
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
(June 28, 2011 at 7:52 am)HeyItsZeus Wrote: ESP is like God. No true solid evidence against or for it. We can only make a rational assumption...


Really? I was under the assumption that esp had been tested to death. Guess I'll have to take a closer look eh?
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#30
RE: Psychic prediction of mass graves turns out false
Rhythm, I thought the same. I think that it has, like so many things, come down to a schism between belief on the one hand and an absolute lack of empirical evidence on the other.
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