The purpose of Law

[Rwandrall]

I don't think the anarchist vision has any value since, in my eyes, it is both impossible to achieve and would not bring anything positive should it be achieved.

Now, that generalization is only for morality purposes, and while it does go towards the idea of everyone having similar moral beliefs, i do not see it as a bad thing: all moralities are not equal in my eyes.

To be fair i'm very Lawful-aligned I really believe in the validity of the legal process as understood in our societies.

[Epimethean]

Cheers, my friend. I respect you for being so focused and articulate.

Do you work in law?

[Rwandrall]

I'm only studying it right now (at university), but i am aiming to soon, hopefully

[Epimethean]

Very cool. My ex-wife is a trial lawyer and my best friend is in-house counsel for Microsoft.

[Rwandrall]

Pretty cool, counsel for Microsoft sounds like a fun job

I still have years of study left, plenty of time to choose my field...law is thankfully very fast

[Epimethean]

Oh yes, and it accelerates after you pass tbe Bar.

[Anymouse]

Oh yes, and it accelerates after you pass tbe Bar.

Which bar? The Friendly Tavern?

[Rwandrall]

If the "friendly tavern" is a place where overstressed law students go to, for half of them to have their dreams crushed, then yes, yes it is

[Anymouse]

If the "friendly tavern" is a place where overstressed law students go to, for half of them to have their dreams crushed, then yes, yes it is

Where I grew up, the "Friendly Tavern" (a real place) was one of the most violent bars I have ever seen, attended nightly by the county sheriff's office (officially). Lawyers could make good money off its patrons.

[Violet]

Your statement is wrong. A system where even the strong have to bow down and respect some rules to limit their powers is a better system than the one you seem to think exists. The reason the FDA holds this power is because it is given by the State, which in turn answers to the people: if they don't do their job and enforce those rules, they don't get re-elected, which is against their goals.

Those who bow down to respect rules of even stronger ones are not themselves strong. Not my fault you can't tell who actually holds power.

The state answers to the plutocrats. and the other men behind the curtain. Democracy is a facade, and a joke, and finally the most evil of all governments. None of us is as cruel as all of us.

It's not a perfect system, but saying the strong "voraciously prey on the weak" is simply wrong in our society.

Rather: simply less obvious to idealists

A law is defined by its means of enforcement, the law and the force behind it are symbiotic. Thing is, the force behind the law has no power without the existence of the law.

A law is a statement of what others are not allowed to do. Laws can be made by anyone from a god to a government to a parent to a child to a mouse. Force behind something and something are different animals.

Under your definition, I could say the United States has no laws since I follow none of them due to the lack of force behind them

Thing is that the ones with power within the law for them most part are just as powerful outside the law, since they made the law.

Those "grounds rules" you talked about ? They are laws.

Yes, and it is only there because a badass president that kicked people's asses made it.

If you consider that holding people accountable for their actions is coercion, then yes it is coercion. So ?

What you mean is "If I consider persuading by force" to be coercion, then yes: that's the legal system 100%.

Coercion exists whether be 'laws' or not. I happen to use it on occasion.

You obviously have no faith in the legal system, but i can tell you it works pretty well. Not perfect, of course, but saying companies make the law is simply wrong.

The American legal system works so well that I managed to find dozens of vendors into the black market and piracy is engaged in by a majority of the population that simply doesn't care about it. And a quarter of the police are corrupt as all hell.

And I've lived in alaska for most of my life... I've seen companies make the law. And behind the system is where the actual lawmakers lie in most 'democratic' systems. Giving the people the power to fuck each other over is never a good plan.

And weed, speeding, prohibition and others. Under your line of thinking making gay marriage the law would be useless since gay people already get married ! right ? riiiight ?

Law is a gigantic body, it's not as simple as black and white.

Piracy is so common these days that they can't even begin to regulate it. Weed slips through the cracks all over the place. People speed as all hell when outside of a city. Prohibition of alcohol and sex has been demonstrated to be impossible for this government.

And marriage is always useless. Marriage in the law is retarded. Marriage denied and enforced by the law is enough to make a Machiavellian person like myself tear their eyes our in laughter and despair.

No, they would not. Under your line of thinking everyone is the same, everyone behaves the same, no matter the laws. Problem is, reality disagrees with you. In Saudi Arabia, women cannot drive. Well under your line of thinking they would drive all the time anyways...well they don't.

False. Almost all plutocrats are the same, almost everyone behind the curtain behaves the same, no matter the laws. Do you know why they are that way? It's because they have to engage in certain behaviors to survive there.

They don't drive not because its against the law, but because even their own husbands would beat them to a pulp if they did.

Laws have another purpose: changing the norms. This is why every state legalizing gay marriage is a big deal: laws are a reflection of the moral principles of the country, and both influence each other.

Legalization of gay marriage is not a big deal. Moral principles of a country are represented whether legal or not, as is demonstrated by the prevalence of piracy, and that often without even realizing it is piracy.

Yeah...That's not reality. If someone puts you in a wheelchair, or burns your car, you're not going to punch them in the face until they pay your treatment. You're going to go to Court. You can believe that this is the way you can lead your life, but i can assure you, you depend on the law system just as much as everyone else, because that is the society we live in, a society under the rule of law.

Actually yes: I am going to kill them even. If they put me in a wheelchair or burn my car: I am killing them, if I haven't already.

Honey, I am not like most people. Using a typical person to describe my behavior is likely rather flawed. I am Machiavellian, I am ruthless, I am exploitative, my behavior varies erratically, I am an opportunist, I am a sociopath... and my morality considers most rapes, murders, thefts, and what have you to be quite moral and even positive in many cases.

The more you assure me of behavior that goes against who I am: the more I laugh inside. Continue to do so and I'll just start trolling every time you say what I will do. You don't see me telling you what you would do, now do you?

I do not believe that is true You bend to the rules of society and its morality just like everyone else, because otherwise you would compromise your own well-being. That is what laws are for.

Does it interest you that I don't bend to the rules of society and commit atrocities in the eyes of people's moralities? WHy do you think I have so few friends? ^_^ I am Brashness incarnate, and I demonstrate this by breaking multiple laws by my simply being in places (I am armed at almost all times).

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Anarchy is government: the 'lucky' will always rule. Government cannot be escaped. Even when one is the government: how can they escape themselves?

Like "a-"=no and "theist"=God/dess belief, "an-"=no, not "archy"=form of government. A belief in Utopia. Fits in with what the atheists call belief in Santa Claus or unicorns.

(Actually, there might be some credibility for the Invisible Pink Unicorn, as she has all the same qualities as the Christian three-god-in-one package (except for that).
James

The basis of law is the powerful attempting to control something. Anarchy is only possible where there is no attempt to control.

And that's a utopia: the death of all. I don't like utopia.

Double edit reason: hid... and then unhid. Because I'm an angel