Evidence that God exists

[fr0d0]

I don't think any science proves (or supports) the supernatural notion of God. Do you? Let me throw that back at you: Does science explain absolutely everything?

Isn't this Dawkin's position? The interest in theology that sells Dawkin's book/s and breaths life into the many forums such as this.

To me science is fantastic and I'm constantly in awe at the ideas in the same way I'm at awe at nature. I really look forward to seeing advancements and want to live as long as possible to witness them.

I have reasoning to support the idea that God exists. None of that reasoning I think fits in with science at all. If there were an ulterior point to thunder angels, like there was something to be learned from the simile... let's imagine there was a point, then 'belief' in the angels would be foolish, as we all know the point of the story is the lesson. That actual physical happenings are used to describe the lesson in beside the point.

Like there actually was a "tree of knowledge of good and evil" (catchy name, dunno how that could've become extinct), and this miraculously formed dust bloke and his spare rib missus actually ate it's fruit after being given instruction to do so from a talking snake.... Are you people OFF YOUR HEADS!?!? Do you really think this is a serious claim of FACT!?!

See, I don't. I think genesis is an incredible book. The stories mind blowing and full of truth. Truth that stands up to scrutiny now, which is pretty mindblowingly amazing. Big up to the bloke/ blokes who wrote it. Top job


@ EvF: Lack of empirical evidence seems to be a signature of God. But not the only signature. Christians use the bible as a record of the signature of God so that they can distinguish him.

[Edwardo Piet]

So I assume this 'record of the signature of God' has no bearing on God's existence whatsoever?

If it has any bearing on his existence, then it's evidence. And there is no evidence of God in the bible.

Like you say there is no evidence of God and I agree.

But if there's no evidence of God then there's no reason to think he exists. Because for the existence of something you need evidence.

EvF

[fr0d0]

You can take or leave the existance of God as you choose, that's stated as the point. You have to choose. For there to be a choice there has to be no hard proof either way.

You said evidence, I said empirical evidence. The bible is almost solely about evidence of the existence of God.

Radio waves have always existed but we had no evidence of them until relatively recently. That we didn't see evidence of them had no bearing on their actual existence. My proposal is that God is extra dimensional and not possible to be described in this dimension by scientific method.

[Tiberius]

I don't think any science proves (or supports) the supernatural notion of God. Do you? Let me throw that back at you: Does science explain absolutely everything?

No, as I've said before science doesn't "prove" anything in the philosophical sense of the word. Given time, science could explain everything in the universe. The explanations might not be completely correct, but they would be as close to correct as we can possibly get them.

Isn't this Dawkin's position?

Given that Dawkins says he is "almost certain" God doesn't exist, I think we can safely say he understands that science cannot prove or explain everything 100%.

See, I don't. I think genesis is an incredible book. The stories mind blowing and full of truth. Truth that stands up to scrutiny now, which is pretty mindblowingly amazing. Big up to the bloke/ blokes who wrote it. Top job

Can you give any examples of that?

[fr0d0]

Can I give any examples of that?

• That God exists outside of time: In the beginning, God <snip> or literally: in the beginning, 'I am' ...a pretty amazing concept
  
• The garden of eden story as an explanation of the human condition... the idea that we're not born perfect but can achieve it
  

[Tiberius]

Ok, and can you explain how any of that is backed up by science, or at least how it is "full of truth" and "stands up to scrutiny".

[Edwardo Piet]

Fr0d0 you now say that the bible is evidence for God. You just meant there is no empirical evidence. Now when you said that it is ridiculous to require evidence for God - I thought you meant evidence altogether. You never mentioned empirical then.

I am of course interested in hearing ANY evidence of the existence of God, empirical or otherwise: I do not believe there is any.

EvF

[Demonaura]

My little interjection, outside of time is a copout excuse for outside of science. Time is a human made model to begin with.

Humans cannot become perfect, nothing can btw it's not a human condition. Everything is tradeoffs, you see it constantly in evolution by natural selection and in the world around us. The Garden Of Eden story is intended to put guilt to your name.

[fr0d0]

@ Adrian:

You know I don't think science is relevant to the subject. Science would only serve to focus on the truth, or that which was outside empirical evidence.

A 'truth' is that the garden of eden story accurately describes the human condition.

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Fr0d0 you now say that the bible is evidence for God. You just meant there is no empirical evidence. Now when you said that it is ridiculous to require evidence for God - I thought you meant evidence altogether. You never mentioned empirical then.

Apologies EvF for my 'looseness' LOL

I have mentioned 'empirical' quite a few times though.

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My little interjection, outside of time is a copout excuse for outside of science. Time is a human made model to begin with.

The idea is accepted by scientists I believe.

Humans cannot become perfect, nothing can btw it's not a human condition.

Perfect in what way?

The Garden Of Eden story is intended to put guilt to your name.

That's one way of looking at it. I see it as amazing potential. You'd think it'd be the other way around wouldn't you? I mean you'd think you, as a non believer couldn't give a rat's ass, and me as believer would be quaking in my boots.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well I would certainly like to hear of this NON-empirical evidence of God then fr0d0 because I don't believe there is any.

What evidence?