Why is halal legal?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, as regards this issue, by this point, I think it may be fair to assume that you aren't going to get any sort of response that will satisfy. Frodo made a good point as to the situation of Islam, and all that it entails in the UK: That many things are almost not even discussed for fear of insulting certain groups. Because of this it was relatively difficult to source information on the subject. Perhaps I can offer a small bit of consolation to you:

After an exhaustive search of regulations and regulatory bodies specific to the UK, and an email to the FSA, it would appear that while the use of things like captive bolt and lethal stunning are prohibited, the animal CAN be stunned before the knife is drawn. It simply may not be "stunned to death". An animal does not have to be stunned to be halal (and in fact there is considerable incentive not to do so), but it can be. In researching this thing I also have to mention, that at one point halal meat was in a much worse position (I've had to retract some of my criticisms of the practice in the UK as not being up to date). Prior to Halal being granted an exemption from regulations regarding captive bolt/stunning , it had been "driven underground" (thanks frodo) by necessity, this resulted in unsanitary procedures due to lack of regulatory oversight. This is no longer the case. It may be that as the consumer base that demands this commodity becomes more "western" they will demand increasingly strict regulation, or demonstrate greater levels of concern for the welfare of the livestock involved (indeed this is already the case in some communities). The steady march of secular morality and ethics in the modern world.

These laws, though by definition uneven in their application at least have the effect of improving the safety and quality of the meat. Without these exemptions Halal meat would still be available to the consumer who is so inclined, it would simply lack the protection afforded by regulations regarding hygiene and sanitary procedure. A situation to be avoided no matter how one looks at the issue.

Fun fact: All of the meat served at Wembley, is at this point Halal.

[Violet]

Rules for some and not for others.

[Rayaan]

After an exhaustive search of regulations and regulatory bodies specific to the UK, and an email to the FSA, it would appear that while the use of things like captive bolt and lethal stunning are prohibited, the animal CAN be stunned before the knife is drawn. It simply may not be "stunned to death". An animal does not have to be stunned to be halal (and in fact there is considerable incentive not to do so), but it can be.

Yes, if stunning the animal does not make the animal dead, then that is allowed in some communities, because it is intended only to knock the animal unconscious so that it does not feel pain and that it is brought under control. According to this opinion, stunning does not render the animal unlawful for a Muslim unless it is dead before slaughter because in a hadith, Muhammad said, "Allah has prescribed excellence and compassion in all things, so when you kill, kill well; when you slaughter, slaughter well, and let him sharpen his knife and spare the animal pain." And basically, the only conditions for the meat to be halal is that (1) the animal is not dead, (2) that Allah's name is mentioned during the the slaughter, and (3) to cut from the jugular vein so that blood is drained from the animal.

However, most Muslims are doubtful about the permissibility of stunning, because such a thing didn't exist in Muhammad's time, and that's why they prefer to kill the animal without stunning first.

[Napoléon]

(3) to cut from the jugular vein so that blood is drained from the animal.

Don't you ever ask WHY this must be done? Or do you just accept it's god's will?

[fr0d0]

IMO @ the time, the Quran was promoting the most humane/ ethical/ hygenic way to slaugther animals. It's of it's time. Today we have proven better ways of doing it, but Islam demands the precise method as written back then because it has become the act rather than the meaning for the act that has become important. People do this all the time: elevate traditional practices to an illogical status.

If humane slaughter was the ultimate aim, as I think it clearly was when Allah dictated it, then we'd be continuing that ideal rather than mindlessly following the exact same process of a scientifically more primitive culture.

If there's an ethical reason to cause less sufferring, as I think the Quran suggests, then it would be following Allahs will more closely to kill an animal more humanely.

Mentioning Allahs name is also ritual rather than an act of love. Love can't be forced.

[Napoléon]

Is that frodo talking sense?

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that frodo talking sense?

My jaw hit the floor too. Thumbs up for Frodo, there's a sensible human being hiding in his meat case after all. Now if only he'd shine that light inwards......

[Napoléon]

My jaw hit the floor too. Thumbs up for Frodo, there's a sensible human being hiding in his meat case after all. Now if only he'd shine that light inwards......

I think in all of his ramblings he very occasionally stumbles upon a decent point.

[Violet]

I think fr0d0 usually makes a good point in his posts... but then I'm practically crazy

[Rayaan]

IMO @ the time, the Quran was promoting the most humane/ ethical/ hygenic way to slaugther animals. It's of it's time. Today we have proven better ways of doing it, but Islam demands the precise method as written back then because it has become the act rather than the meaning for the act that has become important. People do this all the time: elevate traditional practices to an illogical status.

If humane slaughter was the ultimate aim, as I think it clearly was when Allah dictated it, then we'd be continuing that ideal rather than mindlessly following the exact same process of a scientifically more primitive culture.

If there's an ethical reason to cause less sufferring, as I think the Quran suggests, then it would be following Allahs will more closely to kill an animal more humanely.

I agree with you, fr0d0, that if there's a more humane and hygienic way of slaughtering animals, and it does not contradict the instructions in the Quran or Hadiths, then that should be the preferable way to do it. So I'll give you credit for that. There is indeed a difference among Muslims in regard to the matter of stunning animals before the slaughtering. Some think it is okay, while others think it is not okay. My personal opinion is that stunning is permissible (but I'm not 100% sure about that). For example, here's a viewpoint from a Muslim:

Halal Standard Slaughtering Doesn't Need Animals Awake

Mentioning Allahs name is also ritual rather than an act of love. Love can't be forced.

I just had a little bit of an issue with this part of your comment, because whether or not a Muslim does this as an act of love, the mentioning of Allah's name during the sacrifice is commanded in the Quran, as it says, "To every people did We appoint rites (of sacrifice) that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals (fit for food)" (22:34). This is in relation to the role animals played in Muslim practice, in that they are commanded to give thanks to Allah and praise Allah for the sustenance He has given them and that they should sacrifice something of value to themselves (to demonstrate their appreciation for what they have been given). It is a symbol of thanksgiving to Allah by sharing the meat with fellow humans and the poorer members of the community.

Also, how is this different from saying Jesus's name in prayers (and before doing so many other things)? How do you know if the love is 'forced' or not?

The point is that, like I said earlier, the movement of a believer's tongue is connected to his faith. So, the Muslim is saying that as a way of giving thanks to Allah. He can even mention Allah's name silently (in his mind). If his faith is not present, then yes, mentioning Allah's name is meaningless, as the Quran says, "It is not their meat nor their blood that reaches Allah; it is your piety that reaches Him" (22:37).