I rejoice to be an atheist.

[Tiberius]

Well it's unfair as I can't argue that one with you as an admin. It wasn't a petty insult at all. It was a joke, a lighthearted comment. You seem to be taking unwarrented offence at my posts

You can argue with me all you want, I'm for free speech, I don't ban people for saying their opinions. What we will not tolerate is people being unnecessarily rude, and whilst you might have meant it as a jest, I am not the only one who has taken offence to your attitude. Telling someone to "shut it" is rude, and there is no reason why you would even need to say it. It doesn't bring anything into the conversation, so next time leave it out and get on with your point.

If they were followers of Jesus, absolutely. Why not?

Let's just go over this again. You said that the definition of a Christian was a follower of Jesus, I am fine with that definition and I actually agree with you.

However you later said this:

"Less than half of the British people believe in a God, yet about 72% told the 2001 census that they were Christian"

"and 66% of the population have no actual connection to any religion or church" Brilliant!

Smileys were attached to signify you found this hilarious. I assume you found it hilarious that people were saying they didn't believe in God and yet said they were Christian. However you yourself said that to be a Christian you didn't need to believe in God, only follow Christ.

So you are saying anyone who follows the teachings of Christ is a Christian (and you even go as far to say as they don't need to believe in God), yet you laugh at the fact that people who say they do not believe in God and are Christians. The two statements are completely contradictory.

I know it very well, and my comments stand. What do you have a problem with?

The fact that you mentioned "pretend Christians" and people who weren't really Christians, which is a classic example of the no true scotsman. People generally use it when a person leaves the Christian faith, saying "They were never a true Christian, true Christian's never leave".

You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of following Christ. Nothing in what I've said is contradictory.

See above, everything you said about Christian atheists was contradicted by your hilarity at there being Christian atheists...

[Demonaura]

For the record on the first point. How you intended a comment means absolutely nothing, it's the impact it had. If someone takes a comment in a way you did not expect you should first think about your comment from their view and how they saw it so you can get your intended message accross. Impact not Intent.

In other words this means that you need to try to see yourself from the other persons perspective, especially if they are taking offence. That and you should not assume they are finding offence for no reason, theres always a reason, given that we are not perfect we should assume the fault may possibly be with ourselves.

Other than that little interjection I will let you guys continue.

[fr0d0]

Well it's unfair as I can't argue that one with you as an admin. It wasn't a petty insult at all. It was a joke, a lighthearted comment. You seem to be taking unwarrented offence at my posts

You can argue with me all you want, I'm for free speech, I don't ban people for saying their opinions. What we will not tolerate is people being unnecessarily rude, and whilst you might have meant it as a jest, I am not the only one who has taken offence to your attitude. Telling someone to "shut it" is rude, and there is no reason why you would even need to say it. It doesn't bring anything into the conversation, so next time leave it out and get on with your point.

I think that's overly pedantic. But I respect your request. Others have been more rude to me. I guess they must've been warned and I was unaware. Apologies.

BTW thanks for your comment demonaura - point taken

If they were followers of Jesus, absolutely. Why not?

Let's just go over this again. You said that the definition of a Christian was a follower of Jesus, I am fine with that definition and I actually agree with you.

However you later said this:

"Less than half of the British people believe in a God, yet about 72% told the 2001 census that they were Christian"

"and 66% of the population have no actual connection to any religion or church" Brilliant!

Smileys were attached to signify you found this hilarious. I assume you found it hilarious that people were saying they didn't believe in God and yet said they were Christian. However you yourself said that to be a Christian you didn't need to believe in God, only follow Christ.

So you are saying anyone who follows the teachings of Christ is a Christian (and you even go as far to say as they don't need to believe in God), yet you laugh at the fact that people who say they do not believe in God and are Christians. The two statements are completely contradictory.

Christ = God in any definition I've seen. The two are the same thing. It's a huge surprise to me that you're not aware of that.

I know it very well, and my comments stand. What do you have a problem with?

The fact that you mentioned "pretend Christians" and people who weren't really Christians, which is a classic example of the no true scotsman. People generally use it when a person leaves the Christian faith, saying "They were never a true Christian, true Christian's never leave".

A 'true Christian' follows Christ - It's an aim and not a destination... therefore, any person can change their mind at any point and decide not to be a Christian.

Likewise, any current follower of Christ, can (and definitely does) do anti christ stuff all the time, because, like I said, to want to be like Christ is an aim that you can aspire to, and isn't some magic spell that makes you suddenly perfect.

Back to the point... most British people that consider themselves Christian, who don't actually follow Christ, are not actually Christians at all, by definition, and it's quite a tight definition I think.
It would be like an out & out welshman, never ever having had anything remotely to do with scotland or scotsmen in his life, saying that he was a scotsman. We know it isn't true.

[Mark]

Rejoice in being an atheist? Never considered it as being a reason to "rejoice" ( a funny word that I rarely use ). Could that be because it is more often used by faith-heads???
I just think not believing in the truly incredible is actually no big deal.

Well if you read what I said, I think I do supply a credible basis for intense joy in anyone, most particularly from the recognition of the true nature of the Cosmos and one's place in it. I don't think this can be obtained by one who subordinates the entire Cosmos to a human-centered immortality-getting game, or to any analogous supposedly Holy purposes. In any case, I experience this.

But each of us is entitled to his own degree of emotional appreciation of the Cosmos, and most particularly of life here on earth.

[Edwardo Piet]

Good post. You write well.

And you combine and balance emotion and logic nicely I think. Keep up the good posting

EvF

[Mark]

Good post. You write well.

And you combine and balance emotion and logic nicely I think. Keep up the good posting

EvF

Thanks for the kind words. Never fear; I will. Nice board, by the way.

[leo-rcc]

Others have been more rude to me. I guess they must've been warned and I was unaware. Apologies.

They were, in the same fashion as you were.

[fr0d0]

Others have been more rude to me. I guess they must've been warned and I was unaware. Apologies.

They were, in the same fashion as you were.

Not at all. I only respond to provocation. Please give an example of where I initiated hostilities. Except for our good friend Mark here, who initiated hostilities after misunderstanding a joke. Even after someone made an immediate post stating that.

I have no desire to be hostile. I think misunderstandings on both sides are inevitable with me holding opposite beliefs. No reason for us all not to try and get along peacefully, and that would certainly be my desire.

[Kyuuketsuki]

I don't know where those results are held, I just heard from a reliable source. I'll see if I can dig them out. Do you have conflicting evidence then? Or is that just a feeling?

Well the last UK census revealed 70% of the population considered themselves Christian, I assume that is what these Vexen stats are based on.

Also, and importantly, those are not people who call themselves christian but miss the actual accepted definition. Pretend christians may make up a larger number.

While I would accept that an awful lot of UK Christians are not regular churchgoers or whatever you cannot simply declare them to be non-Christian in that way ... that is, as Adrian has already told you, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Like it or not, if someone believe in and follows the ways of Jesus Christ to some degree (i.e. biblical teachings) then they are a Christian and the really interesting thing about that is it clearly makes Adolph Hitler a Christian.

Kyu

[Edwardo Piet]

Good post. You write well.

And you combine and balance emotion and logic nicely I think. Keep up the good posting

EvF

Thanks for the kind words. Never fear; I will. Nice board, by the way.

Sorry for asking: but what do you mean by 'board', do you mean these forums are nice? Or my sig? Or what? What is it referring to? Sorry for asking I'm just curious what you mean by board :$