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Yeah Rayaans a tough nut. Same beliefs, same arguments, but he's so damned nice about it!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(October 10, 2011 at 9:10 am)ElDinero Wrote: After clicking Rayaan's link and reading some of his posts on these matters, I begin to wonder what all the fuss is about. It's constantly trotted out that Rayaan is 'one of the better theist posters' here, which as far as I can tell basically seems to mean 'polite, has been here a while and posts pictures of himself'. Someone in that first thread makes the comparison to Statler Waldorf, and it's hardly an unfair one. Mindless arguments, logical fallacies and mental gymnastics. Colour me unimpressed.
October 10, 2011 at 11:55 am (This post was last modified: October 10, 2011 at 11:55 am by ElDinero.)
Good for him. I'd be more interested in the answers to some more uncomfortable questions, like:
1. What do you think will happen to me when I die, and if it's some kind of punishment, do I deserve it?
2. Will you be offended if I draw a picture of Mohammad? If so, why? And do you think violence is justified in response to offence being taken at something like this? If so, why?
3. If the Qu'ran is so clear and precise as you seemed to imply in the thread you linked to, how is it that it is so easily misinterpreted by people to justify things such as suicide bombings, attacks on people and property and stoning to death? Or are these not misinterpretations, but correct interpretations? If so, are those things justified?
4. Do apostates deserve to be killed for making this choice? If so, why?
Good for him. I'd be more interested in the answers to some more uncomfortable questions, like:
1. What do you think will happen to me when I die, and if it's some kind of punishment, do I deserve it?
2. Will you be offended if I draw a picture of Mohammad? If so, why? And do you think violence is justified in response to offence being taken at something like this? If so, why?
3. If the Qu'ran is so clear and precise as you seemed to imply in the thread you linked to, how is it that it is so easily misinterpreted by people to justify things such as suicide bombings, attacks on people and property and stoning to death? Or are these not misinterpretations, but correct interpretations? If so, are those things justified?
4. Do apostates deserve to be killed for making this choice? If so, why?
Those are good questions and I will answer them breifly:
1. I don't "know" what's going to happen to you after you die. But I believe that there is an afterlife. And if you get a punishment, then you deserve it.
2. No, I'm not offended if you draw a picture of Muhammad. Maybe just a little bit. But it doesn't really matter to me.
3. I don't think that the Quran is totally clear and precise. It does have a lot of verses which tend to be metaphorical and/or have controversial meanings.
4. No, apostates are not to be killed in Islam because this is not sound according to the Quran for may of the reasons mentioned below:
(October 10, 2011 at 9:10 am)ElDinero Wrote: After clicking Rayaan's link and reading some of his posts on these matters, I begin to wonder what all the fuss is about. It's constantly trotted out that Rayaan is 'one of the better theist posters' here, which as far as I can tell basically seems to mean 'polite, has been here a while and posts pictures of himself'. Someone in that first thread makes the comparison to Statler Waldorf, and it's hardly an unfair one. Mindless arguments, logical fallacies and mental gymnastics. Colour me unimpressed.
Well, you can't judge me accurately by looking at a single thread that I made 10 months ago.
And to be honest, from a range of 1 to 10 in the Statler scale, I think that I fall approximately at level 3 (or maybe 4 at max) when taking into consideration all of my aspects and my style of posting in this forum. However, I'm also aware that some of you will have a higher number than that. And I truly have no problem with it.
October 10, 2011 at 2:51 pm (This post was last modified: October 10, 2011 at 2:54 pm by ElDinero.)
You guys are right, he is nice.
Thanks Rayaan. Skirted round the issue a little on the first question, but I suppose you gave me what I wanted. So let's carry on:
Why do I deserve punishment for not following a certain religion if I live a good life, being kind to people around me, helping where I can, and being loving and affectionate to those close to me?
(October 10, 2011 at 2:51 pm)ElDinero Wrote: Why do I deserve punishment for not following a certain religion if I live a good life, being kind to people around me, helping where I can, and being loving and affectionate to those close to me?
This question is related to my opinion of 'what is God' and what he is able to do.
As I said in post # 8, I want to start a whole different topic for that which I'm still thinking about. That's why I can't give you a straightforward answer right now.
(October 10, 2011 at 3:23 pm)Rayaan Wrote: It might take a few weeks to put my thoughts together. So, be patient and breath easily. And don't expect it to be anything mind blowing.
I too would really like to read this. I'm interested to see how such a nice guy can be comfortable with the thought of a fellow human enduring eternal suffering for lack of faith.
(October 10, 2011 at 11:55 am)ElDinero Wrote: 2. Will you be offended if I draw a picture of Mohammad? If so, why? And do you think violence is justified in response to offence being taken at something like this? If so, why?
I happen to have encountered an answer to this, from a Somali Bantu child's perspective. They don't draw images of people or animals, but see that as a restriction on what Muslims are allowed to do, it doesn't apply to non-Muslims (or photographs). Drawing a picture of Mohammed is not taken much differently, although questions about how does the drawer know what Mohammed looks like have arisen. Also, it's kinda mean to draw caricatures of him and how do Christians like people drawing funny pictures of Isha (Jesus)? But it's wrong to respond with violence and terrorists don't understand Islam.
It's just an answer though, not the answer. Islam isn't monolithic, and in the USA I expect it to splinter repeatedly when Muslims have more opportunity to mimic the American Christian habit of shopping around for places of worship.
