Hello!

[Minimalist]

You got that right.

Like Paul, I was hoping to be wrong.

[Faith No More]

That bluntly proves that there is such thing as the supernatural.

I'm not sure you understand what it means to prove something. You have a supposed story from a third party about something that occurred that she had no explanation for. Then somehow you make the giant leap that this is proof of the supernatural. Do you realize how silly it is to automatically declare something you can't understand to be an otherworldly spirit, and are you really sure you want to base your religious views on something so trivial and ridiculous?

[Minimalist]

Oddly, FNM...perhaps its one of those "miracles" they are always talking about...a buddy sent me this today.

A Husband takes his wife to play her first game of golf. Of course, the wife promptly hacked her first shot right through the window of the biggest house adjacent to the course.

The husband cringed, "I warned you to be careful! Now we'll have to go up there, find the owner, apologize and see how much your lousy drive is going to cost us."

So the couple walked up to the house and knocked on the door. A warm voice said, "Come on in."
When they opened the door they saw the damage that was done: glass was all over the place, and a broken antique bottle was lying on its side near the pieces of window glass.

A man reclining on the couch asked, "Are you the people that broke my window?"

"Uh...yeah, sir. We're sure sorry about that," the husband replied.

"Oh, no apology is necessary. Actually I want to thank you... You see, I'm a genie, and I've been trapped in that bottle for a thousand years. Now that you've relea sed me, I'm allowed to grant three wishes. I'll give you each one wish, but if you don't mind, I'll keep the last one for my self."

"Wow, that's great!" the husband said. He pondered a moment and blurted out, "I'd like a million dollars a year for the rest of my life."

"No problem," said the genie. "You've got it, it's the least I can do. And I'll guarantee you a long, healthy life!"

"And now you, young lady, what do you want?" the genie asked.

"I'd like to own a gorgeous home in every country in the world complete with servants," she said.

"Consider it done," the genie said. "And your homes will always be safe from fire, burglary and natural disasters!"

"And now," the couple asked in unison, "what's your wish, genie?"

"Well, since I've been trapped in that bottle, and haven't been with a woman in more than a thousand years, my wish is to have sex with your wife.."

The husband looked at his wife and said, "Gee, honey, you know we both now have a fortune, and all those houses. What do you think?"

She mulled it over for a few moments and said, "You know, you're right. Considering our good fortune, I guess I wouldn't mind, but what about you, honey?"

You know I love you, sweetheart," said the husband. I'd do the same for you!"

So the genie and the woman went upstairs where they spent the rest of the afternoon enjoying each other. The genie was insatiable. After about three hours of non-stop sex, the genie rolled over and looked directly into her eyes and asked, "How old are you and your husband?"

"Why, we're both 35," she responded breathlessly.

"No Kidding," he said. "Thirty-five years old and you both still believe in genies?"

So, 35 is too old to believe in genies but there are plenty of theists older than that who believe in a sky-daddy.

Bizarre.

[TheCarlisle]

So, 35 is too old to believe in genies but there are plenty of theists older than that who believe in a sky-daddy.

Bizarre.

You draw your facts from stories that were made to entertain? That is truly bizarre.

" Do you realize how silly it is to automatically declare something you can't understand to be an otherworldly spirit, and are you really sure you want to base your religious views on something so trivial and ridiculous?"
Trivial and ridiculous are an opinion in this case, and no, I don't base my belief in this story alone. Consider it a water bottle holder on the bike of religion.
My dad saw the mess, and everything else the morning after. I'd say he's a very reliable source. There are so many possible scenarios. Through the process of elimination, what do you believed caused that mess? I've already responded to the prank hypothesis.

[Ace Otana]

This may clear things up a bit:

It has, you've convinced me that you're completely mad.

meaning that some supernatural thing did it.

No, it means she (being the only one there) could of been the culprit, if not then you don't know. Just because you don't know something doesn't automaticly mean something superstitious must be the cause, that's just dumb. You have perfectly demonstrated one of mankind's biggest habits. And that's jumping to "goddidit" every fucking time you don't know or understand something.

And if you think that she threw the trash everywhere, I have my doubts of that.

If she was the only one there, then my doubts would be very little. Maybe someone climbed through a window and decided to leave you a little message?

She had no reason whatsoever to throw trash everywhere. She believed that it was a ghost or something that did it.

Well she must be nuts to hold such idiot beliefs, I really wouldn't put it past her.

And since they exist, it's a possible and probable scenario.

The supernatural is not probable but extremely IMPROBABLE!

Later, the store owner found out that the restaurant was built partly on an old native cemetery.

So what? That proves fuck all.

And since they exist

There is no evidence to suggest that they even exist. You're just assuming they do, that's all.

Since the natives of Canada don't believe in Jesus Christ, they would have certainly gone to hell.
That bluntly proves that there is such thing as the supernatural.

No, it proves you're completely delusional. If all you can do is say "goddidit" then yeah, you're crazy.

[The Grand Nudger]

"And since they exist".......Since what exists? Garbage? Ladies?...surely not...gh..gh..gh..ghosts?

[edk]

> And since they exist

So one of the main reasons that this story convinces you of the supernatural is the fact that you are convinced of the supernatural... I mean, you're using this story as an argument to support the likelihood of the existence of ghosts and gods and what have you, and you're using the "fact" that ghosts exist as the primary argument to support the likelihood of your story having ghosts in it.

[The Grand Nudger]

You draw your facts from stories that were made to entertain? That is truly bizarre.

Yes, yes that IS bizarre. :tares flatly at Carlisle::

[TheCarlisle]

You draw your facts from stories that were made to entertain? That is truly bizarre.

Yes, yes that IS bizarre. :tares flatly at Carlisle::

Haha, if you're referring to the Bible, there is no evidence to prove that it is fake. But let's save that debate for another thread.

"If she was the only one there, then my doubts would be very little. Maybe someone climbed through a window and decided to leave you a little message?"
It's seems possible, if there were any windows that wouldn't break if you tried to enter it. All windows were a solid pane of glass. There were not like the one in your house, where you can open it.

"Well she must be nuts to hold such idiot beliefs, I really wouldn't put it past her."
So essentially, you're saying she lied. But why would she lie? To quit her job? Yes, that would be the easiest method. If she was a nut case, other coworkers would know and tell the store owner that she may have done it. Also, two other coworkers believed her and left with her. This shows that they trust her.

"The supernatural is not probable but extremely IMPROBABLE!"
However improbable/probable, it's still possible.

"Later, the store owner found out that the restaurant was built partly on an old native cemetery."
This doesn't prove anything as it has not intended to do so. I'm just speculating on why these events happened. I can't prove why though.

"If all you can do is say "goddidit" then yeah, you're crazy."
I can also say, "I believe in God." So no, I'm not crazy.

[Ace Otana]

It's seems possible, if there were any windows that wouldn't break if you tried to enter it. All windows were a solid pane of glass. There were not like the one in your house, where you can open it.

I keep forgetting about your American buildings. We have old cottages and mills that have been converted into restaurants and some very fancy windows. Some are a good few hundred years old.

So essentially, you're saying she lied.

I'm not saying she did absolutely, I'm saying it's a distinct possibility. Go for the most likely, until there is evidence to suggest otherwise. Or just stick to Occam's Razer, the simplest explanation is most likely and often correct. The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is the one you should go for. You're more likely wrong the more assumptions you make. You should only go for a more complex explanation when there is evidence to support it. It's a basic scientific principle. Use it.

But why would she lie?

Look into her personality and any possible motives. If she was the only one present, she is the first you look into. Some religious nuts have done some pretty nasty things simply because they 'believed' god told them too. Don't just assume god did it.

To quit her job?

Possible.

If she was a nut case, other coworkers would know and tell the store owner that she may have done it.

Not if they shared her crazy beliefs. Some people go around claiming god spoke to them, yet many fellow Christians see nothing unusual about it.

This shows that they trust her.

Do you?

However improbable/probable, it's still possible.

Possible? Yes, Probable? No.
Go for the most likely, then work from there. Superstition should always be last on your list, because there is no evidence to support it. Stick to Occam's Razer.

I'm just speculating on why these events happened.

You can speculate better than that. I know you can.
I often work in the woods, sometimes I see shady objects moving in the distance. I never jumped to any conclusions. I stated the obvious then worked up from there. The obvious was: There are objects in the distance, and they're moving. It was only till later that I learnt that they were in fact cars. I never knew the road was that close. If I jumped to "goddidit", I'd feel pretty damn stupid.
Start with the obvious, then work your way up from there. You might just find out what caused that mess, then you'll notice just how silly jumping to "goddidit" was.

I can also say, "I believe in God." So no, I'm not crazy.

Fail to draw a sharp line on the floor, a limit where you won't accept certain claims without good reason and evidence, and you'll embrace madness. I won't accept your god claims, because I can explain the every day event with science, plus there is no evidence for a god or gods.

For some reason, I see potential in you. But I've been wrong before.