And the warmongers waste no time

[theVOID]

libertarianism is a political philosophy,

Not over here. That's what I'm trying to get you to understand. The prime proponents of it are the Koch brothers who are a couple of rich motherfuckers who want to gut the government's regulatory capacity so they can rape, pillage and slaughter their way across the landscape even more.

The Koch brothers being libertarians is debatable, perhaps conservative libertarians at best, but they have given more dollars to the tea party and the GOP than the Libertarian party - Also, the Libertarian party are an organisation comprised of various libertarians with varying philosophies around the individualist spectrum.

Call them libertarians if you like, I don't agree with everyone who shares the same general position on the politician spectrum - What I dislike about the Koch brothers the most is their lack of concern for the rights of others to their bodies and properties as well as their wanting less regulation while keeping the limited liabilities, tax breaks and subsidies that they currently receive - Having no regulations would work as long as all parties are fully liable and receive no funding or special privileges - having all three simultaneously is I fully agree going to be a nightmare where people are consistently fucked over, forced to give corporate welfare, where competition is crippled by disproportionate subsidies and tax breaks which hurts consumers and cripples market functions - this is what they want and it is specifically why they are backing the tea party, not the Libertarians, they would only get one of the four aspects from a libertarian, with the tea baggers they get everything they want, that's why I class them as neocons and due to their support for the tea baggers I would classify the Koch brothers likewise.

Yeah, they couch it in terms of "liberty" to make it appealing to the dolts but Bill Maher considers himself a "libertarian" because he wants pot legalized.

No, he isn't. He's called himself that about a decade ago, he's pretty clearly not one anymore, it would like supporting a corporate police state but calling yourself socialist if you support public education...

The word as you are trying to use it has no meaning in the states.

I disagree, it's not the self-described libertarians who by-and-large are misusing the term, it is people who continually conflate the libertarian political philosophy with republicans and nazis as if they are the same thing, like yourself.

That is easier than you think. They are the ones working while the tea bagging shitheads are protesting.


Tea Bagging Shithead:

Yeah, that's truly retarded.

[Minimalist]

Call them libertarians if you like

No, Void, they call THEMSELVES libertarians. You sound just like the xtian shitwits when they start saying that anyone who disagrees with them can't be a xtian. I won't let them get away with the No True Scotsman argument and I can't let you do it either.

Here, the word does not mean what you want it to mean. And these two fuckers are calling the shots. That's the problem.

[theVOID]

Call them libertarians if you like

No, Void, they call THEMSELVES libertarians.

Hey, Min, I already acknowledged that.

You sound just like the xtian shitwits when they start saying that anyone who disagrees with them can't be a xtian. I won't let them get away with the No True Scotsman argument and I can't let you do it either.

That's BULLSHIT Min, I never said they weren't "true libertarians" and I was, I said they are at best "conservative libertarians", that says NOTHING about them being true, it's more analogous to the mormon/catholic/calvinist factions of Christianity, by that distinction you could take a christian who takes wafers and believe they are eating the "body of Christ" and call them "Catholic" or a christian who believes we have no free will and are inherently depraved and call them "calvinists" or one who believes Jesus came to america and left some golden tablets and call them "mormon" - Just like that you could take a Libertarian who believes in public education, low regulation and individualism and call them "left-libertarians" or someone who is 'traditional' on social issues and pro-business and call them "conservative libertarians" or someone who like me who believes in as much freedom as possible both socially and economically and call them "classical liberals" - They are all generally in the "libertarian" camp of political philosophies, that was the ONLY point I was trying to make.

Here, the word does not mean what you want it to mean. And these two fuckers are calling the shots. That's the problem.

They "Call the shots", bullshit. They are two people with money who fund a specific type of ideology, they are no more authoritative on the "true" definition of libertarianism than I am or Noam Chomsky is, yet you've given them this authority over what "libertarian" means for all libertarians in America period - Who's the one committing the no true Scotsman fallacy here min? If anyone it's you.

[Minimalist]

Keep telling yourself that, Void.

Meanwhile, we are living with the reality of these corporate pricks fucking this country over.


http://news.muckety.com/2010/08/27/koch-...tics/27851

[The Grand Nudger]

Georgia Pacific Lumber? I've got a nice fat claim against them. They don't like to honor their contracts when their buyers fall through. I'll never see a dime. Didn't know that was Koch.

[KichigaiNeko]

I'm just rather miffed that Australia and New Zealand don't even rate a mention on those charts.

[Anomalocaris]

The point is the USN did not have 3 carriers when the Japanese attacked with 6. There were 6 US fleet carriers to match the 6 fleet carriers available to the Japanese.

How do you figure that?

Lexington, Saratoga, Yorktown, enterprise, wasp, hornet. The fact that 3 of them was in the wrong ocean means we played our cards wrong, not we get to claim underdog status.

[Minimalist]

The Saratoga was in San Diego ( yes, technically the Pacific but somewhat out of range) and due for an overhaul. When she did sail to Hawaii she was promptly torpedoed and did not get into the war until just after Midway.

The Yorktown and Wasp were in the Atlantic ( as was the Langley, even if that one doesn't count ) and they were not exactly jerking off. There had been several shooting incidents between U-boats and US naval forces. The Wasp needed a refit. The Hornet was still undergoing training and did not make her operational debut until the Doolittle raid.

We did have a two-ocean navy, something the Japanese did not have to worry about. In addition to the six fleet carriers they also had Hiyo and Junyo and some light carriers which they considered too slow to send along with Nagumo and Kido Butai.

An even bigger advantage was the superiority of their carrier-based aircraft to US designs in 1941. Finally, their pilots were at the peak of their training.

We were simply lucky that Enterprise and Lexington were not near Pearl Harbor that day.