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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 25, 2011 at 10:56 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2011 at 10:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
How do you know it's god's word? Or that there is even a god to give the word? How is this statement different than "no proof is all the proof I need"?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 6:09 pm
(October 25, 2011 at 10:56 pm)Rhythm Wrote: How do you know it's god's word? Or that there is even a god to give the word? How is this statement different than "no proof is all the proof I need"?
I know it is God's word because if it were not, all knowledge and proof would be impossible. So the fact that we live in a world that we can know and prove anything is irrefutable proof that the God of scripture lives.
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 6:13 pm
LOL, yeah, rock solid right there, "I'm backing up my beliefs with my beliefs."
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 6:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: LOL, yeah, rock solid right there, "I'm backing up my beliefs with my beliefs."
Everyone has to back up their beliefs with their beliefs; it's called a worldview there toots. My worldview can account for the truth of things that your worldview assumes to be true but can’t account for.
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:13 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 6:09 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: I know it is God's word because if it were not, all knowledge and proof would be impossible.
...and THIS logical fallacy is called the non-sequitur ("it doesn't follow").
Another example: I know I have a million dollars in my bank account right now because it were not so, it wouldn't be 8:13 PM in Louisville right now.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Some of us back up our "beliefs" with evidence Stat, a concept obviously lost on you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:31 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 8:13 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: ...and THIS logical fallacy is called the non-sequitur ("it doesn't follow").
Another example: I know I have a million dollars in my bank account right now because it were not so, it wouldn't be 8:13 PM in Louisville right now. The only problem here is that it does follow. You yourself helped prove it when you couldn’t give account for the laws of logic even though you believe they are true. I can give account for them.
A better example than your silly one above would be, “I know that words exist because if they did not exist you would not be able to argue they didn’t, you most certainly can argue they do not exist, so therefore they do exist.”
(October 26, 2011 at 8:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Some of us back up our "beliefs" with evidence Stat, a concept obviously lost on you.
Oh yeah? What evidence do you have that laws of logic exist since you believe in them?
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2011 at 8:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I don't believe in them Stat, I demand that they be demonstrated (lucky for me that they can be eh?). It's also worth mentioning that when you and I talk about "the laws of logic" there is a fundamental disconnect, we aren't even discussing the same thing in reality.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:46 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 8:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I don't believe in them Stat, I demand that they be demonstrated (lucky for me that they can be eh?).
Wait a second, you are using laws of logic (something either exists or doesn’t exist, is true or false) to justify your belief in the laws of logic? You are using your beliefs to back up your beliefs? I thought we were not allowed to do that!? Or am I the only one not allowed to do that? Uh oh!
Quote: It's also worth mentioning that when you and I talk about "the laws of logic" there is a fundamental disconnect, we aren't even discussing the same thing in reality.
You are right, I believe in the laws of logic that I can give account for given my worldview, you believe in the laws of logic despite the fact you cannot give account for them. There is a fundamental difference there, rationality vs. irrationality.
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RE: Van Tillian/Clarkian Presuppositional Apologetics.
October 26, 2011 at 8:52 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 8:31 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: The only problem here is that it does follow. You yourself helped prove it when you couldn’t give account for the laws of logic even though you believe they are true. And this logical fallacy is called the argument from ignorance (mingled in with shifting the burden of proof.
Another example: I can account for the laws of logic because prancing invisible unicorns tell me to use logic. You can't prove invisible prancing unicorns don't exist and so I must be right.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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