Adam and Eve impossible

[Minimalist]

If things got that bad, I would start thinking about leaving.

So would I.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Some types of stupid you will never overcome, no matter how much evidence you have.

Nice article BTW

IF the problem was simple stupidity, there would far fewer believers. The median IQ in a community is about 100, which is neither overly bright not overly stupid.

Our core beliefs/world views are inculcated uncritically before the age of reason. Few people ever question them, nor is there any reason they 'should'.

Life positions formed without the use of reason and logic will seldom be effected by the use of those tools.

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Rather than try to prove any belief is false,my approach is to demand the believer prove it is true.

Stating X is impossible is making a positive claim and attracts the burden of proof. To do so is to argue from a position of personal certitude,usually a mistake.

[salty]

Ok. Ok. I agree that it's important to be informed. William Craig may be someone you don't like, but he's informed, so I need to stop being lazy about evolution. What are your sources? No Wikipedia, please. I prefer books or articles. Scientific talk is tough but for you guys I can push through it.

[Justtristo]

And then their kids had sex with each other, and their grandkids had sex with each other. Incest much?

Funny that young earth creationists admit openly that adam and eve's childern and grandchildern had sex with each other. They justify that of course by saying that humans were more genetically healther back then and that the laws prohibiting incest did not come until the days of Moses.

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Ok. Ok. I agree that it's important to be informed. William Craig may be someone you don't like, but he's informed, so I need to stop being lazy about evolution. What are your sources? No Wikipedia, please. I prefer books or articles. Scientific talk is tough but for you guys I can push through it.

If you want to a good introduction to evolution by natural selection, read either Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne (although I have not read that) or The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins (I have read and thought it was great).

[Erinome]

I have 3 children whom I have raised to question everything. Their ages are 7, 4, and 3. We have had many discussions on the topic of science and evolution, and then one day the oldest asked me about the bible and the story of creation. He had heard a little about it while visiting his Christian father. I read all three of them Genesis broken down into parts, which I paused to explain it to them in a way they could understand... ya know, modern English. Anyway, when I was finished, they asked a few questions, and then my son said something very interesting:

"Whoever came up with all that had a good imagination."

My children get it. I have not indoctrinated them to believe any particular way. For as long as they can remember, I have given them some factual information and then let it sort it out for themselves. It might help to have a mother who has studied the origin of life in school to explain all of this from the very beginning, but it also helps immensely if one's mind hasn't been scrubbed of all logic to make room for faith.

If you have a scientific mind/way of thinking, the story of Adam and Eve is absurd, and it's just that simple. God let Adam name all the animals?!? Why? In what language? Did Adam magically know of all the animals that we haven't even discovered yet?

Why is it okay to assume that God made women as sort of an afterthought? even though God supposedly has a divine plan, why did he add Eve last? He's God, so didn't he KNOW that Adam would be lonely? Didn't he know that Satan would trick her? If he knew, and did nothing about it anyway, why would he punish all of mankind? What kind of God is this?

[Zen Badger]

Ok. Ok. I agree that it's important to be informed. William Craig may be someone you don't like, but he's informed, so I need to stop being lazy about evolution. What are your sources? No Wikipedia, please. I prefer books or articles. Scientific talk is tough but for you guys I can push through it.

Dawkins is good on the biology (the ancestors tale and the greatest show on earth as previously mentioned).

Another good one is The science of discworld by Terry Pratchett, Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart.

The good thing about those books is that they are aimed at a mainstream audience so the science isn't too heavy.

[Erinome]

Why is it that in every illustration of Adam and Eve they have bellybuttons? Why would people who had no use for an umbilical cord have bellybuttons? You can argue that no one could know if Adam and Eve actually had bellybuttons, but it's obvious that no one who has ever been inspired by the bible's version of creation had enough sense to even think about it. I know this, because I have thought about it, and it's ridiculous for Adam and Eve to be portrayed with bellybuttons when you're clinging to the argument that they were never inside a uterus.

[Santewi]

Why is it that in every illustration of Adam and Eve they have bellybuttons? Why would people who had no use for an umbilical cord have bellybuttons? You can argue that no one could know if Adam and Eve actually had bellybuttons, but it's obvious that no one who has ever been inspired by the bible's version of creation had enough sense to even think about it. I know this, because I have thought about it, and it's ridiculous for Adam and Eve to be portrayed with bellybuttons when you're clinging to the argument that they were never inside a uterus.

Well, haven't they said that the story isn't literal? I suppose they don't really think about what they believe in because they're just used to believe. Every time someone proves them wrong they just come up with excuses and tell us how "it isn't literal" but "still happened in some form"...

[Ace Otana]

Funny that young earth creationists admit openly that adam and eve's childern and grandchildern had sex with each other. They justify that of course by saying that humans were more genetically healther back then and that the laws prohibiting incest did not come until the days of Moses.

They know nothing about biology. So I never listen to them. Just as I won't listen to a baker telling me the workings of the space shuttle. Or a young earth creationist telling me about the universe.

No matter how healthy the genes may be, it can and most likely will cause genetic disorders. To do it more than once will without a doubt have serious and potentially fatal genetic problems. It's a scientific fact, so unless they can prove otherwise, I'm not listening. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
The whole two of every animal on the ark thing would have the same problem. Fatal genetic disorders.

[Jaysyn]

I believe I remember William Craig

A bible-thumping moron who makes his living selling more stupidity to the already stupid.

If you want to learn about biology, you need to read books by biologists.

I know they are harder but you should really make the effot. Unless you don't want to learn and merely seek to have your superstitious drivel confirmed by con men.


Your choice.

memo to Min:
watch your language, the thought police are monitoring your every post!

That was a very polite response. He didn't insult Salty. William Craig *is* a religious con man after all.

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What are your sources? No Wikipedia, please. I prefer books or articles. Scientific talk is tough but for you guys I can push through it.

If you want to a good introduction to evolution by natural selection, read either Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne (although I have not read that) or The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins (I have read and thought it was great).

There are your books Salty, you've got a lot of catching up to do.