Back to Theism

[Edward]

Wow! So it's all true because you believe it is true? Because you can't "hack" a universe that doesn't give a sh**? Poor you but, despite the long-winded philosophical answer, colour me unimpressed (and YES I thought about that before I posted it).

So you ARE a Christian! Well there goes my last chance to respect your views

Ladies and Gentlemen! The Great Atheist! A dolt who is unimpressed and close-minded, to boot. An absolute authority in his own mind. So afraid of being wrong, he'd rather know nothing at all. He's an atheist! And no matter what someone says, if he brands them a Christian--they get his hand! What an amazing creature God hath wrought. See him in his geek-shiek glasses. See his bald head and goatee beard. See him with his Starbucks walking around Barnes and Noble. See him appear so intelligent and then watch in awe at what doesn't come from his mind!

Adrian: As I said to Frodo, "It's a bit like when theists claim that belief is the harder path ... it's rubbish, it's easy to believe, it's harder (much harder) to remain sceptical. I think it's a lot easier to believe in things like god (indeed recent research suggest we're built to believe), it takes education, training & discipline not to fall for that kind of rubbish."

If we're built to believe, don't you have the slightest curiosity as to why? And excuse me, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of discipline because you can walk around with your eyes closed saying, "I don't believe, I don't believe. I'm a skeptic. Prove, prove, prove." Don't you see that blind skepticism taken to its conclusion will leave your mind more like that of a reptile than a human being? I told you before, you think you know things, but you don't. You only know what you've been told. You only believe, and you only believe because someone who holds a psychological authority over you told you to believe. You're like a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead. You're just like the religious.

Now, bring out some original philosophy. Synthesize some arguments into a new concept, provide some answers that you, yourself, have created, and then you start to become human. My guess is you'd also become a theist.

Edward: "So here, refute this one; we'll call it prima facie evidence for the existence of God: The universe displays intelligence; therefore, the universe is intelligent. An intelligent universe is what we call God.

The usual theistic metaphysical bullshit then?

You ask for an argument, you get one you can't handle, so you wave it off as bullshit. Even though almost every mathematician deals with metaphysical concepts, you wave it all off as bullshit. Even though great philosophers, on whose teachings we have built great civilizations, dealt extensively with metaphysics, even though quantum mechanics is a slippery slope into metaphysics, and even though the big bang itself cries out for a metaphysical exlanation, you know it's all bullshit. What a genius.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The Great Tiberius, Atheist Extrodinaire!

[LukeMC]

So here, refute this one; we'll call it prima facie evidence for the existence of God: The universe displays intelligence; therefore, the universe is intelligent. An intelligent universe is what we call God.

Maybe I don't understand the flow of this argument but it seems nonsensical.

The universe displays sexual desires towards children; therefore, the universe is paedophilic. A paedophilic universe is what we call [insert arbitrary noun].

Attributing characteristics of a component to the entire machine is fallacious (I think).


But hey, if your argument did follow soundly, I'd agree with it. Heck, why not? If that's all God is, we can say with certainty that all the religions are wrong and their claims are untrue.

[Tiberius]

Ladies and Gentlemen: The Great Tiberius, Atheist Extrodinaire!

Excuse me? Try reading the thread again, because nothing you attributed to me was even said by me. It was all said by Kyu in this post. Yet another display of fundamentalist dishonesty? Or perhaps it was a "mistake".

As we've pointed out, your argument wasn't one we "couldn't handle", but one that was wrought with logical fallacies, such as the circular argument and the non-sequitur at the end.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Wow! So it's all true because you believe it is true? Because you can't "hack" a universe that doesn't give a sh**? Poor you but, despite the long-winded philosophical answer, colour me unimpressed (and YES I thought about that before I posted it).
So you ARE a Christian! Well there goes my last chance to respect your views

Ladies and Gentlemen! The Great Atheist! A dolt who is unimpressed and close-minded, to boot. An absolute authority in his own mind. So afraid of being wrong, he'd rather know nothing at all. He's an atheist! And no matter what someone says, if he brands them a Christian--they get his hand! What an amazing creature God hath wrought. See him in his geek-shiek glasses. See his bald head and goatee beard. See him with his Starbucks walking around Barnes and Noble. See him appear so intelligent and then watch in awe at what doesn't come from his mind!

Apparently you believe that an attempt (a very poor attempt I might add) at character assassination is a good way to defend against a point made? Debate isn't a skill you seem to be over familiar with.

Could you try addressing the point made (essentially that that the reason you appear to believe what you believe is that you can't accept the universe is uncaring)?

Adrian: As I said to Frodo, "It's a bit like when theists claim that belief is the harder path ... it's rubbish, it's easy to believe, it's harder (much harder) to remain sceptical. I think it's a lot easier to believe in things like god (indeed recent research suggest we're built to believe), it takes education, training & discipline not to fall for that kind of rubbish."

If we're built to believe, don't you have the slightest curiosity as to why? And excuse me, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of discipline because you can walk around with your eyes closed saying, "I don't believe, I don't believe. I'm a skeptic. Prove, prove, prove." Don't you see that blind skepticism taken to its conclusion will leave your mind more like that of a reptile than a human being? I told you before, you think you know things, but you don't. You only know what you've been told. You only believe, and you only believe because someone who holds a psychological authority over you told you to believe. You're like a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead. You're just like the religious.

My point actually.

Indeed I do, it's quite obvious that I am very interested in every aspect of religion and its effect on society and the human psyche.

So being a sceptic makes me more reptilian? Whoosh! Sorry but that one went straight over my head ... you're very good at making these unsupported assertions aren't you?

Oh, so you told me before that I think I know things but I don't ... well lucky me that I have you here to *educate* me! Wow! Colour me unimpressed (AGAIN).

Again you resort to a weak-arsed attempt at character assassination.

In future may I request, both as a denizen of this forum and a moderator, that you cease the personal insults.

You've been warned.

Kyu

[Edward]

Maybe I don't understand the flow of this argument but it seems nonsensical.

The universe displays sexual desires towards children; therefore, the universe is paedophilic. A paedophilic universe is what we call [insert arbitrary noun].

Great, given an infinity of examples to choose from, you come up with the above. I'd like to call that nonsensical, unfortunately I'd bet it makes perfect sense.

I'm not addressing it. Come up with another example.

[Eilonnwy]

Ladies and Gentlemen! The Great Atheist! A dolt who is unimpressed and close-minded, to boot. An absolute authority in his own mind. So afraid of being wrong, he'd rather know nothing at all. He's an atheist! And no matter what someone says, if he brands them a Christian--they get his hand! What an amazing creature God hath wrought. See him in his geek-shiek glasses. See his bald head and goatee beard. See him with his Starbucks walking around Barnes and Noble. See him appear so intelligent and then watch in awe at what doesn't come from his mind!

And here we have a Straw Man fallacy.
http://fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

Keep them coming, I'm having fun pointing out your logical fallacies

[LukeMC]

Great, given an infinity of examples to choose from, you come up with the above. I'd like to call that nonsensical, unfortunately I'd bet it makes perfect sense.

I'm not addressing it. Come up with another example.

The universe displays drug addiction; therefore, the universe is addicted to drugs. A drug addicted universe is what we call [insert arbitrary noun].

I don't see how changing the example makes any difference. It looks exaclty like your point.

The universe displays [insert a human condition]; therefore, the universe [is subject to this condition]. A universe [subject to this condition] is what we call [arbitrary noun].

[Demonaura]

On top of everything he said we know why we're built to beleive. It's a result of the same thing that sets children to beleive whatever they are told by adults. Kids could not learn all that they need to in time by doubting everything, that's the job of thinking adults.

On top of that your ideas of philosophy mean your only human if you make up a bunch of bull that 'feels right to you'. The universe doesn't exist to kiss our arse we're not special. Well, most of us are if ya know what I mean.

We ask for arguments to hear what you have come up with, if we know something about the universe that causes it to sound stupid then it probably is, if it relies on things we can't know then it is probably worse.

I use the word 'we' here but, I'm speaking for myself, use the word 'we' is a result of a psychological effect and it opens the statment to include whoever wants to say 'I agree with that guy'. That said, you still have yet to grasp the concept of an atheist, I doubt you ever will at this point.

Skepticisim, doubt, material philosophy and just about everything you speak about has shit all to do with the fact that most of us here are atheists. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it again but, don't be surprised if people start ignoring large parts of what you say when you decide to use the word 'atheist' to describe everything you don't like.

[Kyuuketsuki]

The universe displays [insert a human condition]; therefore, the universe [is subject to this condition]. A universe [subject to this condition] is what we call [arbitrary noun].

I would have to say that both analogies are relevant ... as far as I can tell Edward's objections arise out of either ignorance, bigotry or simply an unwillingness to accept the parallels (which may be restating the last one).

Kyu

[Edward]

The universe displays drug addiction; therefore, the universe is addicted to drugs. A drug addicted universe is what we call [insert arbitrary noun].

Actually, yes. Only you haven't factored far enough. If a universe has drug addiction, a universe must be conscious, if a universe is conscious, it must have intelligence, if a universe has intelligence, it must be intelligent. An intelligent universe is what we call God.

And no, you couldn't put any arbitrary noun in place of God. I'm not trying to prove the universe is an orange. An arbitrary noun would be like putting any old number after the = sign in a given equation.