Myths & Truths About Atheism

[Kyuuketsuki]

Greta Christina's Blog has an article, "Eleven Myths & Truths About Atheism" which she freely admits is based on Sam Harris's, "10 myths and 10 Truths About Atheism" so I thought maybe we should do our own?

So here's some based in these:

• Atheists believe there is no god: No, atheism is about disbelief in current claims to deity not actually insisting we know there is (indeed cannot be) a god or gods.
  
• Atheism provides no basis for morality: A brief survey of human history and culture demonstrates that morality varies implying it depends on culture, on society, on people. Religionists promoting this idea however tend to refer to scriptures that as often as not enshrine morally repugnant ideas.
  
• Atheists believe that life is meaningless: Most atheists appear to live fulfilling and meaningful lives without any form of god to provide meaning.
  
• Atheists are sullen, angry, unhappy, disrespectful, intolerant, and mean: Character assassination only works if it's true and the atheists I've met seem to have just as much fun, as much love, as much friendship in their lives as anyone else, they seem to relate to people just as most others do ... in short they are just human.
  
• Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history: Hitler was a Christian, Stalin a failed priest, Pol Pot an atheist and all instigated appalling pogroms against groups of people for no morally supportable reason but what's more important is that these people did what they did not because of being religious (though it’s debatable with respect to Hitler) or because of any other theistic stance but because they were megalomaniacs.
  
• Atheists are arrogant: Some are, some aren't ... atheists vary so much that it's hard to characterise them in a specific character mould.
  
• Atheists treat science as a religion: I'm sure there are some who do but typically no, most rational atheists tend to view science as exactly what it is, a methodology for explaining observable phenomena. Science is not a religion and no atheist I know of treats it that way.
  
• Atheists are just being trendy: This sounds like the old claim there are no atheists in foxholes i.e. we're just doing it because we can but when the chips are down we'll come crying back to mama (or papa). It's a ridiculous idea not only because there are many people who have been in metaphorical foxholes (times of great crisis) including soldiers in real foxholes who haven't come whining back to a religious POV but also, as an atheist, I reject all deity so which god would I choose even if did decide to believe in one once again?
  
• Atheists are whiny: So acting responsibly and defending one's rights is whiny? If so yeah sure ... I'm whiny as hell.
  
• Atheists are just angry with God: It's news to me, scared of the religious institutions and what their follower's might do sure, but how can an atheist be scared of a god he or she doesn't actually believe in.
  
• Atheists are arguing with straw men criticising the worst, the most outdated aspects of religion in the most simplistic way and ignore more modern, thoughtful & complex forms of religious thinking: That's possible but in my experience the more modern and complex, modern theological ideas are just variations on themes that have already been exposed and debunked a million times.
  
• Atheism is dogmatic: Atheism isn't a philosophy, how can it be dogmatic? Sure atheists themselves can be dogmatic, they are human and exhibit various characteristics (quite likely involving dogmatism in some cases) but as a group, no they aren't.
  
• Atheists think everything in the universe arose by chance: No, they it is, as yet, unknown how the universe came to be ... that is an open question and not in any way the same as saying, "the universe arose by chance"
  
• Atheism has no connection to science: True but a good understanding of science does tend to lead people to disbelief.
  
• Atheists are closed to spiritual experience: Like any other humans atheists experience love, friendship, excitement, awe and so on and whilst that typically doesn't include the religious idea of spirituality there is nothing specific about atheism that means an atheist cannot have spiritual experiences.
  
• Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human understanding: Not at all, disbelief in god doesn't specifically mean a disbelief in other supernatural concepts.
  
• Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to society: Not in my experience but religionists tend to ignore the fact that religion can be detrimental to society. In addition there have been meta-studies that imply societies without religion are better than those with.

I can answer these pretty much off the top of my head (indeed I gave brief answers) but I'd like to know if any of you have better answers or can suggest more theist nonsense claims about atheism.

Kyu

[leo-rcc]

Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to society: It is a fact that there are elements of religion that can certainly be beneficial to society. However, as to date, I have yet to find a benefit of religion that could not be attained or hasn't been performed by secular means.

[Tiberius]

Hitler wasn't a Christian, he was more of a spiritualist or follower of mysticism. Historical consensus today agrees that he was neither Christian or atheist, but he was rather anti-religious.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Hitler wasn't a Christian, he was more of a spiritualist or follower of mysticism. Historical consensus today agrees that he was neither Christian or atheist, but he was rather anti-religious.

I guess he must have missed the consensuses




"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"The task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission."

And don't forget the Nazi soldiers whose uniforms included belt buckles with the inscription "Gott Mit Uns" (in English, "God is with us")...

I mean Hitler may well have been a flake, he may well have been into all those other religions but he most definitely was heavily influenced by his Catholic/Christian upbringing.

Kyu

[Eilonnwy]

Hitler wasn't a Christian, he was more of a spiritualist or follower of mysticism. Historical consensus today agrees that he was neither Christian or atheist, but he was rather anti-religious.

Since Hitler remained a formal memebr of the Church till his deaht, Hitler was indeed a Christian. While there is controversy that Hitler may have not believed in Catholicism based on some things he said, one thing is clear is that he was raised Christian, never left the church, and used Christian anti-semitism for the war. There's even a connection between Hitler and Martin Luther. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism

I have not seen any consensus that Hitler was not a Christian. In fact from what I can tell they are still disputed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...us_beliefs

But the point that is most important when someone talks about Nazism, is that whether or not Hitler secretly believed or not, the war was supported by Christianity and it was Christian propaganda that Hitler used.

[Tiberius]

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"The task of preserving and advancing the highest humanity, given to this earth by the benevolence of the Almighty, seems a truly high mission."

And don't forget the Nazi soldiers whose uniforms included belt buckles with the inscription "Gott Mit Uns" (in English, "God is with us")...

I fail to see how any of those quotes directly relate to Christianity. Mentioning "God" only means he was not an atheist, which makes him either a theist or a deist. He seems more likely to be a theist than a deist though.

Since Hitler remained a formal memebr of the Church till his deaht, Hitler was indeed a Christian

I'm still a formal member of a Church (seeing as I never told them I didn't believe any more). Does that make me a Christian? No.

While there is controversy that Hitler may have not believed in Catholicism based on some things he said, one thing is clear is that he was raised Christian, never left the church, and used Christian anti-semitism for the war. There's even a connection between Hitler and Martin Luther. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_and_antisemitism

I'm not disputing he had connections with the Catholic church. I'm disputing some weird claim that he actually believe in Catholicism, which has never been proven. Indeed, in public he praised religion to get followers, but in private he despised it: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." (Goebbels).

I have not seen any consensus that Hitler was not a Christian. In fact from what I can tell they are still disputed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...us_beliefs

The section of private statements is a good basis for what Hitler really thought.

But the point that is most important when someone talks about Nazism, is that whether or not Hitler secretly believed or not, the war was supported by Christianity and it was Christian propaganda that Hitler used.

Now that I don't dispute, but Kyu's argument was that Hitler was a Christian, which is blatantly not true.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Now that I don't dispute, but Kyu's argument was that Hitler was a Christian, which is blatantly not true.

I accept that you disagree but it is hardly blatantly untrue and TBH I think your tone suggests I am being somehow disingenuous when I am not. Like it or not there is evidence to suggest that Hitler was highly influenced by his Christian beliefs and some of his statements strongly suggest he was still acting as such ... arguably I am wrong to say he WAS a Christian (I don't think so but it would be a dull place if we all agreed) but I certainly don't think you can claim with certainty that he wasn't.

Kyu

[Tiberius]

Well to be honest I think the evidence that is most conclusive is the quotes from his personal aides, and reported quotes by Hitler late in his life. Certainly he spoke positively of Christianity as a young man, and on his way up to power, but in the late 1930's and beyond. I also find it interesting to read in the Wikipedia article that documents discovered in 1998 revealed Nazi plans to exterminate Christianity after World War II. Now it seems to me a little weird that Hitler would be a Christian and want to exterminate his own religion...

[Kyuuketsuki]

Now it seems to me a little weird that Hitler would be a Christian and want to exterminate his own religion...

No one ever said Hitler wasn't complex ... being brutally honest, someone who can sanction the extermination of, what was it, 15 million people in death camps etc. isn't exactly your average human being and wanting to kill your own doesn't exclude you from being one of that group.

Besides, I wouldn't mind betting that some of the historians who apparently now consider Hitler not to be a Christian either have religious (Christian) convictions of their own and are potentially interpreting with a less than objective POV. Of course I don't actually know this, all I see is some of the evidence, the pictures, the quotes and so on ... the only thing I am sure of is that the personalities of characters we see now from history are very unlikely to have much to do with the personalities of the characters that actually lived at the time.

Add to that the fact that Wiki is very good for non-contentious subjects but it is user subscribed and for contentious subjects (and whether Hitler was pro or anti Christianity, atheist or theist is often argued fiercely) it is pretty much about who shouted last and loudest.

Kyu

[Overmars]

Hitler was a member of the Thule Society, a German occultist group, which he used to set the basis of the NSDAP, he also claimed to be a Christian "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice." I think he used religion to gain more popularity from the German people.