So claiming a miracle means that the claimant de facto must be honest?
Trying to update my sig ...
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Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 16, 2011 at 9:22 am
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2011 at 9:24 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 16, 2011 at 7:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't care what examples you use to see that some things are defined by their function... but that they do is very plain to see. You seem to be willing to distort reality in order to dismiss that: "Businesses don't exist". Defined now, what happened to evidence of existence? I think you'll find that those things which are "defined by their function" also come replete with material evidence for their existence (such as a business). This just doesn't work for god Frodo. "Mordor" and "Frodo" have definitions as well, neither are real (in the sense that the sun is real, of course).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Actually, I think a business compares quite well to a god.
A business consists of people, paper and products. The business itself does not exist as an entity, but rather as an identification of the collection of assets. These assets can exist without the business, but the business cannot exist without the assets. Substitute god.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy
It doesn't work as a rational justification for believing in god. You could probably use a business to make observations about religion all day. What it can't do is argue for the existence of said entity.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I was not arguing for the existence of a god, but rather the concept.
god Wrote:They think, therefore I am.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 16, 2011 at 10:55 am
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2011 at 10:55 am by Epimethean.)
But better put:
Credunt, ergo videor. They believe, therefore I seem to exist.
Trying to update my sig ...
 (October 16, 2011 at 7:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: "Magic" is slight of hand; false; trickery; not true; deception. Miracles are cliamed to be true; not deception; divinely facilitated positive events. I have made no claims about function, but I point out the problem with an exclusivity in proposing material existence is all that can be said to exist.Nope thats just wrong. Magic as defined by Wikipedia: "Magic is the claimed art of manipulating aspects of reality either by supernatural means or through knowledge of occult laws unknown to science." I think you are narrowing the definition just to be that of the David Copperfield showbiz variety. So it still stands, what makes xtian magic mo beleivable than pagan magic or Hindu miracles? (October 16, 2011 at 7:21 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yeah the bit I didn't bold was completely off the subject. I don't care what examples you use to see that some things are defined by their function... but that they do is very plain to see. You seem to be willing to distort reality in order to dismiss that: "Businesses don't exist".Name just one occasion where I distorted reality. I gave you my answer and you have not refuted it. I have infact embraced reality as an absolute to make the point (I can give a much fuller version if you wish). Again you have failed to address the fact that you have no theory of concepts and you loosely apply the word 'exists' to conceptual integrations falsely. These are products of the conscious mind only and not of reality which is absolute and cannot be altered by mind, nor wishing it so etc. I don't deny parts of businesses have presence in the universe, that is clear from physical assets, customers, employees. But loyalty, goodwill, drive do not as they are products of human minds only. Reality is what's left after we have removed consciousness.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
 
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
So I won't have to hear you prattle on about your powerful rational justifications for the existence of god anymore Frodo? Hallellujah!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
H0ary H0bbit Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Le sigh!
 Is it only you Rhythm, who thinks that rational proof should equal physical proof? Rationally the proof in undeniable (although you deny it). Physically there can be no proof <-- Rhythm's head bang moment. |
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