Was the star of Bethlehem a real astronomical event?

[Minimalist]

So this guy is able to show that Jupiter retrogaded in Dec 2BC

Um, even if this were true all it would do is further complicate the already existing contradiction between Luke and Matthew about your alleged godboy's birth. Matthew places it while Herod the Great was still alive, IOW before 4 BC. Luke places it when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was named governor of Syria in 6 AD. There is no way to reconcile this contradiction and now this bozo wants to introduce a 3d choice which matches none of the texts which xtian nuts swear are both true!

By the way, there is a secondary problem with this bullshit - which only appears in "Matthew."


Matt 2:

7 Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10

Really? Let's see your xtian astronomer explain how a star could pull off a trick like that!

[Godscreated]

So this guy is able to show that Jupiter retrogaded in Dec 2BC

Um, even if this were true all it would do is further complicate the already existing contradiction between Luke and Matthew about your alleged godboy's birth. Matthew places it while Herod the Great was still alive, IOW before 4 BC. Luke places it when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was named governor of Syria in 6 AD. There is no way to reconcile this contradiction and now this bozo wants to introduce a 3d choice which matches none of the texts which xtian nuts swear are both true!

By the way, there is a secondary problem with this bullshit - which only appears in "Matthew."


Matt 2:

7 Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10

Really? Let's see your xtian astronomer explain how a star could pull off a trick like that!

He explains it with no problems using the same computer program that NASA does, we've been over this before and all you have are excuses, if you want to see truth check into it or shut up.

[Minimalist]

He's as big a dickhead as you are, G-C. Pretending this jesus shit is real is your biggest hang up.

( 2 BC does you no good at all.)

[Godscreated]

Open mind, bring things to argument?

Wtf are you on, you are a closed mind, you only accept your way, and nothing would change that. We atheist would change our mind with proof, of which you never, ever bring anything to the table.

'Facing the reality of Christ', you make no sense you deluded idiot. Time for you to take your meds and come back with hard evidence.

The best thing about science btw is that it is neutral, it is just a search of truths and facts. You and your mob are biased.

Check out the Starry Night program NASA uses, this is the program that was used to show how the Star of Bethlehem is possible. NASA counts on this program to to land spacecraft on Mars and to put them in orbit around other planets. When you feel that your grown up enough to handle the truth check it out. Also thanks for proving what I said.

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IF the "star of Bethlehem" was an actual real astronomical event why then do you assume it was a magic man's doing? Why have you ruled out a supernova?



If Betelgeuse should explode within our lifetimes will you interpret that as Christ's second cumming? Note "coming" deliberately misspelled since no such historical figure ever actually arrived in the first place.

I'll just ignore such a childish act. The reason that God has everything to do with the Star of Bethlehem, He knew when to send His Son into the world so that it could be documented by the heavens, He knew exactly were the stars and planets would be to give witness to the birth of His Son. God being creator and omniscient this was no problem for Him. Also thanks for proving what I said.

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I'd just like to throw in a few things here before we all vanish completely down the rabbit hole. First off, Jupiter orbits the Sun every 11.86 years, and within that period it seems to turn retrograde - as all the outer planets must - every 400 days or so (398.9 to be precise). So basically once every 13 Earth months. Is this your miraculous sign, something that is so wonderfully amazing it's essentially an annual event? I'm sure you could find something just slightly less ambiguous if you tried, such as a lunar eclipse; there's at least two of them a year, surely someone could fudge something to fit.

Second, the retrograde phenomenon is purely an illusion caused by the Earth's faster orbital period, of no more significance than one car appearing to move backwards from the point of view of a second car passing it, or a railway platform appearing to move backwards when the train starts forward, as seen by a traveller aboard said train.

Third, there is a major problem with the 'Bethlehem Star' story. In order to cause a group of astrologers (as opposed to astronomers) to up sticks and set off blindly across the desert, the 'star' must have been regarded as especially significant, or at least unusual. However, the Magi of the story were not, by any stretch of the imagination, the only astrologers on the planet - nor would they have been the only ones in their hometown. Yet we're to believe that they were the only ones who noticed? Unlikely.

Finally, as has already been alluded, there is little that is original in the whole Christ-myth anyway.

NASA uses the Starry Night program to pinpoint where planets will be so they can have spacecraft to be at the correct place at the correct time. I see also that you do not completely understand that the position a person is at on Earth will determine what is seen, you have to remember the Magi were east of Bethlehem and in close proximity to Babylon.

[IATIA]

I see also that you do not completely understand that the position a person is at on Earth will determine what is seen, you have to remember the Magi were east of Bethlehem and in close proximity to Babylon.

I see that it is you that does not completely understand that the position a person is at on Earth will determine what is seen. It would take several hundred miles of displacement to significantly alter one's view of a celestial event. So you are saying that there were only three people within several hundred square miles that observed this 'event'? (BTW. 1000 miles equals one hour difference at the equator.)

[Erinome]

Look, I've just typed my fingers raw writing a paper on millisecond pulsars. I like to post things on this forum that deal with the more human side of the universe (philosophy, history, theology, etc) because my mind is constantly scrambled from my school work regarding the science of astronomy. I find it absurd that someone who obviously doesn't know anything at all about astronomy would use the word "god" to explain an astronomical event.

You don't have a fucking clue as to the exact time that Jesus was allegedly born. That being said, there are two different logical, scientific explanations for the "star of bethlehem". One being a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn that happens once every 140 years, which from an earthling's perspective looks like an enormously bright object in the sky. The other explanation would be supernovae. Ancient Chinese records tell us that there were supernovae in the night sky in the general time that Jesus of Nazareth was allegedly born, and an unknown number of babies were murdered because he was allegedly born.

The bible was written by people who didn't have a clue that our sun is a star, no more special than the countless other yellow dwarf stars in the universe. They knew nothing, really, compared to what we know now, and what we know now is merely a fraction of what there undoubtedly is to know about astronomy, the universe, and everything. What we do know for sure is that if the Judea Christian version of god exists, he is a barbaric piece of shit, who could not have possibly had anything to do with the "creation" of the infinite number of mindfuckingly complex galaxies in the universe.

Take your invalid theoretical nonsense and go astound the morons at talkjesus with your amazing biased understandings of actual astronomical events.

[5thHorseman]

'Also thanks for proving what I said.'

Maybe you should take notes, you NEVER prove anything.

[Minimalist]

You don't have a fucking clue as to the exact time that Jesus was allegedly born.

Neither did the two gospel crackpots who tried to invent the story of the godboy's birth, Alie. That's why they are off by a minimum of 10 years.

I wonder how quick G-C would be to throw his gospels in the trash to go along with his new astronomer hero.

The mental gymnastics needed to reconcile 3 different dates may well be worth the price of admission.

[CoxRox]

Well..let me start by saying; "Hello, nice to meet you, I dont think Ive seen you in here before."

Second, I would like to mention that someone could EASILY mistake your name of "CoxRox" to mean all kinds of naughty things that may cause Sweet baby Jesus to cry.

Third, I didnt watch your movie. It's not you...it's me. You see, I read the entire Bible back when I was a believer and I learned something from it:

Jesus and God are fucking douche bags.

I switched from a born again to an atheist after reading the entire bible.

Hello Reverend Jeremiah. It's good to discuss these things with you.

I chose the name CoxRox, because at the time, Professor Brian Cox (not sure if non Brits would know much about him?) had started doing science programmes. I think I got a crush on him, what with his good looks, intelligence and past fame as a member of the band D-Ream. Cox does indeed rock- hence CoxRox.

When I discovered the video about the Bethlehem star, what struck me, was that science does 'prove' that a 'star' (back then, they called planets wandering stars) DID appear at the time of Christ's birth. The EXACT year of Christ's birth may have been in doubt, but a year either side is pretty accurate, and so this astronomical event that occured in 3 BC through to 2BC coincides with the claims in the Greek Scriptures of when Messiah was born. You can call me gullible if you like. Is it really only a coincidence that this astonomical event coincided with the birth of Jesus? The alignment of Jupiter and Regulus is nothing special as Aleialoura has explained (thanks for the other slide show Alei). Something about the alignment THIS TIME, did make it stand out to the magi, when they were watching it:

''In 3/2 BC, Jupiter's retrograde wandering would have called for our magus' full attention. After Jupiter and Regulus had their kingly encounter, Jupiter continued on its path through the star field. But then it entered retrograde. It "changed its mind" and headed back to Regulus for a second conjunction. After this second pass it reversed course again for yet a third rendezvous with Regulus, a triple conjunction. A triple pass like this is more rare. Over a period of months, our watching magus would have seen the Planet of Kings dance out a halo above the Star of Kings. A coronation. ''

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/dance/dance.htm

I'd have to quote too much to really convey why these ancient astronomers (who most likely believed in the Jewish God- hence why they wanted to find the Messiah and present Him with gifts) knew that THIS alignment was no ordinary one. The web site explains is better I think, than the video.

Another important thing to consider is the prophecy in Daniel that dates when Messiah would come. This prophecy's timeline (written hundreds of years before Jesus was born) also coincides with the same timing of Jesus' birth- yet more proof that the Messiah was born just when the appointed time arrived or is that another coincidence as well?

Reverend Jeremiah, I understand why you don't believe in God. I've almost stopped believing for the same reasons. It's Christ's promises that evil will not always be a feature of life and that He will make all things new that helps me to trust Him with my life. Am I deluding myself? There is that chance of course, but there are too many 'coincidences' like the two I've just briefly mentioned, that point to Jesus as being the Messiah.

[frankiej]

Am I deluding myself?

Definitely