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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 9:32 am
(February 16, 2015 at 7:30 pm)Surgenator Wrote: (February 16, 2015 at 7:22 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: "Spiritual" doesn't require a spirit any more that "elfin" requires an elf. You still know the referent.
If this is true. Revise my first quetion "what is spiritual healing?"
Me, I see "spiritual healing" as a phrase used by believers to describe returning to mental health, using the language of their beliefs.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 9:53 am
(This post was last modified: February 17, 2015 at 9:55 am by watchamadoodle.)
@ emilynghiem, I like thinking about woo too.
- An alternative medicine I've heard about is foot massage. Supposedly that helps chemo patients. How do we have a double blind test for foot massage?
- Another issues is the placebo effect. Let's say a shaman's rituals seem to heal patients, but they only work if the patients are aware of the rituals. Is that proof that spiritual healing doesn't work? Hypnosis and the placebo effect are very effective sometimes.
- Also there are some forms of spiritual healing that require the cooperation of a deity. Prayer is an example. That provides plenty of room for confirmation bias.
So spiritual healing needs a clear definition. That's a problem for woo and spirituality in general IMO.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 10:44 am
(February 17, 2015 at 4:33 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: (February 16, 2015 at 6:17 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I would suggest brevity.
Yes. Brevity good.
Too wordy; sb "Brevity good."
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 11:33 am
(February 16, 2015 at 10:59 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: Who has ever based existence of God on whether human limbs can grow back? I have never heard of this.
The point is that if spiritual healing works, why doesn't it work on limbs?
Obviously, the answer is because there is no cellular process available in humans to do so.
And clearly, the inference is that your alleged "spiritual healing" relies upon physical processes, and is therefore an unnecessary explanation.
As for "spiritual healing" regarding addiction, what is needed to beat addiction is willpower and the desire to change. Gods need not apply. AA has a miserable success rate. Regarding other physical ailments, faith-healing kills children.
You ask for studies to document the efficacy of faith-healing, when you should be providing evidence that it has any whatsoever. You should not be criticizing people who look at information like what I've linked to here and reckon that "spiritual healing" is bullshit, because quitefrankly, that's exactly what it looks like.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 11:38 am
Quote: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
Sorry, you don't know what science is. Is there any 'spiritual' healing for your kind of dumbness? You should start with that.
"To spiritually heal homossexual people"... Sheesh. Perhaps to heal them from the abhorrent mistreatment from those sanctimonious twats that believe in magic and that kind of 'wooo!'.
There is a scientific cure for your stupidity, it's called a lobotomy.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 12:38 pm
(February 17, 2015 at 4:33 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: (February 16, 2015 at 6:17 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I would suggest brevity.
Yes. Brevity good.
Very.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 2:11 pm
(February 17, 2015 at 11:38 am)LastPoet Wrote: There is a scientific cure for your stupidity, it's called a lobotomy.
Was that really necessary? Emily hasn't attacked or insulted anyone.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm
(February 17, 2015 at 2:11 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Was that really necessary? Emily hasn't attacked or insulted anyone.
No but her ignorance is the source of a lot of hate towards homosexuals and transgendered people.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 3:03 pm
(February 17, 2015 at 2:11 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Was that really necessary? Emily hasn't attacked or insulted anyone.
It wasn't necessary per se, altough it was sufficient when someone believing in spirituality, or whatever that bs is, brands people like this:
(February 16, 2015 at 10:59 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: I've never seen forced forgiveness that worked to heal anything. And never seen someone magically will away their drug addiction or especially not a sexual addiction as deeply rooted as pedophilia. You cannot just will someone to stop being homosexual or to suddenly become transgender.
These are deep spiritual conditions, and the cases of people who have healed did so through forgiveness and healing therapy. (bold mine)
Keep in mind that bunch of woo about this 'spirituality' and the branding of homossexuality as a 'spiritual' condition for example. I'm not homossexual, but that offends me. It offends my humanity.
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RE: Help: jumped on for seeking scientific proof of spiritual healing
February 17, 2015 at 3:09 pm
(This post was last modified: February 17, 2015 at 3:12 pm by bennyboy.)
Emily, even if you accept that being homosexual is a sickness, I don't think there's any evidence that "healing," spiritual or otherwise, can cure it. When "Are you still gay?" is the only criterion for determining whether someone is really gay, then it's not very meaningful.
I don't know much about the research, but I'm pretty sure that I've seen, in my lifetime, assertions that faith can contribute to healing of other types, and then more recently that in fact it does not, and then in the past few years that expectations of healing in response to prayer actually cause stress to patients with no beneficial effects at all. But if you really want to talk about scientific proof, there HAVE already been studies. Why don't you google them, and link a few results?
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