Dealing with Death as an Atheist

[Whateverist]

I'll prey on it.

[Mudhammam]

I have a cousin who posts on FB how god was good every time anyone makes it home alive in the car. I'm just waiting to see if she ever exclaims how god was a real rat bastard when someone gets in a car crash instead.

That's pretty bad. I have former co-workers whom in the past week, one asked why god allows evil (her infant child has cancer), and after a long rant, concluded it is to test our faith and that all evil (and presumably the cancer her child is battling) is inflicted by Satan. The other, just today, posted pictures of her new SUV with the caption (paraphrasing), "This is what FAITH gets you!" (faith was actually in all caps). It's pathetic. Then there are my mother's Christian FB posts....

[Cephus]

There are a lot of theists out there who absolutely thank Jesus for everything from finding their car keys to surviving another day on the planet.  These are most ultra-fundamentalist types and, of course, a small minority of the total theist population.  However, the idea that theists are actually thinking about their beliefs, that's another thing entirely.  You cannot come to a belief in any god by wholly rational means, you cannot think your way into it because there is no rational reason to believe that gods exist in the first place.  Therefore, depending on how you define "thinking", I'd argue that, with regard to their beliefs, lots of theists have never thought about them at all.

There are definitely rational reasons to believe in God.  The key is the belief in a number of false premises.  Premises that we are often inclined to assume to be true due to sociological and biological influences.   But that IS another story.

And thanking Jesus is akin to being thankful you had good luck.  Hell, I still say thank god when I find my keys.   Not because I believe in some deity, but because the meaning is "I'm relieved things worked out."  The only difference is that theists believe that 'chance' has varying degrees of order, while most Atheists just think it is pure chance.  

No, there are no rational reasons to believe in any gods because there is no evidence at all that said gods actually exist in reality.  If they believe in false premises then their conclusions are likely faulty.

And "thank god" is often a social construct that is a hold-over from religion, but not religious necessarily in and of itself.  It's the people who really mean it in a religious context that have a problem.

[downbeatplumb]

Dealing with death.

You must get a polypropeline container large enough for a body because strong acids will eat through the metal of a bath.

[Whateverist]

I suspect death will be a cinch. No expertise required.

[robvalue]

Wallym: I'll make this my last statement as this has drifted off topic, and then I'll leave the matter.

Indeed, I presented exaggerated thoughts in my behaviour thread to make the point, they are meant to be strawmen. The point is that if people truly believed what they are saying, I would expect to see some differences in behaviour. Yet I don't. So I can only conclude that they don't really believe them, or are finding some way to rationalise the need to act as if they aren't true anyway. Some people will be the former, some the latter.  I'm not saying they are even aware they are doing it. I asked for examples in that thread for anyone to try and show this point or my other point to be wrong; which is that when theists do drastically differ in behaviour from atheists, the outcome is usually bad. If you have counter examples to either, please go ahead an post them.

I wasn't trying to say every theists puts all this thought into every action. It was my approximation of how they would reconcile their beliefs with their actions, if they stopped to analyse them fully. It's not mean to be literal.

If you want to continue to discuss it, please post it in my thread.

[henryp]

There are definitely rational reasons to believe in God.  The key is the belief in a number of false premises.  Premises that we are often inclined to assume to be true due to sociological and biological influences.   But that IS another story.

And thanking Jesus is akin to being thankful you had good luck.  Hell, I still say thank god when I find my keys.   Not because I believe in some deity, but because the meaning is "I'm relieved things worked out."  The only difference is that theists believe that 'chance' has varying degrees of order, while most Atheists just think it is pure chance.  

No, there are no rational reasons to believe in any gods because there is no evidence at all that said gods actually exist in reality.  If they believe in false premises then their conclusions are likely faulty.

And "thank god" is often a social construct that is a hold-over from religion, but not religious necessarily in and of itself.  It's the people who really mean it in a religious context that have a problem.

If you think the world is flat, it is not irrational to believe you might fall off the edge if you sail far enough in one direction.  There is a difference between incorrect and irrational.  What happens is people have a view of the world, and they look for a way to explain that view.  God is an a very good answer for their false impression of reality. 

But if you take away the premises, say the world is round or humans do not have intrinsic value, then there is no longer a reason to believe you'll fall off the edge, or God exists.  It's an important distinction.

[Mister Agenda]

Yes, but then what is the of being a king or a pawn if all of your efforts are for naught?

What's the point of a story that lacks an ending?

[Cephus]

No, there are no rational reasons to believe in any gods because there is no evidence at all that said gods actually exist in reality.  If they believe in false premises then their conclusions are likely faulty.

And "thank god" is often a social construct that is a hold-over from religion, but not religious necessarily in and of itself.  It's the people who really mean it in a religious context that have a problem.

If you think the world is flat, it is not irrational to believe you might fall off the edge if you sail far enough in one direction.  There is a difference between incorrect and irrational.  What happens is people have a view of the world, and they look for a way to explain that view.  God is an a very good answer for their false impression of reality. 

But if you take away the premises, say the world is round or humans do not have intrinsic value, then there is no longer a reason to believe you'll fall off the edge, or God exists.  It's an important distinction.

But the initial belief in a flat world is irrational, thus anything based upon that belief is also irrational.  There is absolutely no reason in the modern world for anyone to believe that the world is flat but that doesn't stop some people from belonging to the Flat Earth Society (although I suspect it's largely a joke these days).  At the core of rationality is the ability to reason and these people are not reasoning their way into their beliefs, they are using pure and unrestrained emotion.  That makes their beliefs irrational by definition.  Their beliefs are not reasonable nor rational nor logical.

You can only spin this so many ways.  The religious are as ridiculous as people who believe in unicorns or leprechauns.

[henryp]

If you think the world is flat, it is not irrational to believe you might fall off the edge if you sail far enough in one direction.  There is a difference between incorrect and irrational.  What happens is people have a view of the world, and they look for a way to explain that view.  God is an a very good answer for their false impression of reality. 

But if you take away the premises, say the world is round or humans do not have intrinsic value, then there is no longer a reason to believe you'll fall off the edge, or God exists.  It's an important distinction.

But the initial belief in a flat world is irrational, thus anything based upon that belief is also irrational.  There is absolutely no reason in the modern world for anyone to believe that the world is flat but that doesn't stop some people from belonging to the Flat Earth Society (although I suspect it's largely a joke these days).  At the core of rationality is the ability to reason and these people are not reasoning their way into their beliefs, they are using pure and unrestrained emotion.  That makes their beliefs irrational by definition.  Their beliefs are not reasonable nor rational nor logical.

You can only spin this so many ways.  The religious are as ridiculous as people who believe in unicorns or leprechauns.

Do you really think it was irrational for the people 1000's of years ago to believe the world was flat?  

A modern example is Free will.  Most people believe in free will.  It looks like it's probably not real.  I don't think people living their lives like free will is real are irrational.  They are just mistaken about a premise on which they are basing their conclusions.

Do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make between faulty premises and being irrational?